The Omani Battle Sword. Sayf Yamaani.

[Gonzalo G]

Ok, I saw the link to that discussion. And your post, three years latter. And your post over there answer my question. I just tried to know what is your opinion on the possible relation of both types of swords, and not to bring all the information on the jineta sword.

The term "Spanish" is derivated from "Spain". And Spain didn't exist in that time (15th Century), as "India" didn't exist before the British. Only a conglomerate of rival christian kingdoms speaking different languages and, of course Al-Andalus, and after it, the muslim Emirates (the "Taifa") and lastly, the Emirate of Granada. Spain is not a territory, but a nation state. But this political matter is not important in this discussion, so thank you for your opinion on the subject of the swords.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Ok, I saw the link to that discussion. And your post, three years latter. And your post over there answer my question. I just tried to know what is your opinion on the possible relation of both types of swords, and not to bring all the information on the jineta sword.

The term "Spanish" is derivated from "Spain". And Spain didn't exist in that time (15th Century), as "India" didn't exist before the British. Only a conglomerate of rival christian kingdoms speaking different languages and, of course Al-Andalus, and after it, the Muslim Emirates (the "Taifa") and lastly, the Emirate of Granada. Spain is not a territory, but a nation state. But this political matter is not important in this discussion, so thank you for your opinion on the subject of the swords.

Salaams, Perhaps I will open the thread on this weapon since we have hardly a page of detail on Library. The history of the region is very interesting not least the potential for discussion of Jinetas in this regard.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I HAVE A BETTER IDEA ... WHY DONT WE CONTINUE THE EXISTING THREAD ...Its only about one page thus, I suggest expanding on this simply by bringing it on !! Here goes....

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A few more pictures as a reminder of the Old Omani Battle Sword... The Sayf Yamaani.

[ariel]

Ibrahiim,
We have seen these pictures before. They were posted right in this topic.
Perhaps, there is no need to re-post them.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Ibrahiim,
We have seen these pictures before. They were posted right in this topic.
Perhaps, there is no need to re-post them.

Well I can live with a bit of repetition as a form of pictorial memory jogger... Perhaps you can find some more?

[Gonzalo G]

Interesting resemblance with a qattara in Mozarab-Spanish illustrations.

92a-b) Illustrations of ‘Sword of St. Peter’ and ‘Guards at the Holy Sepulche’ in the Avila Bible, Mozarab-Spanish 12-13 cent AD (Biblioteca Nacional, Ms. ER8, Madrid). 93) Carving of ‘St. James’, Spanish 12-13 cent AD (in situ Church of Santiago, Betanzos, La Coruña).

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Interesting resemblance with a qattara in Mozarab-Spanish illustrations.

92a-b) Illustrations of ‘Sword of St. Peter’ and ‘Guards at the Holy Sepulche’ in the Avila Bible, Mozarab-Spanish 12-13 cent AD (Biblioteca Nacional, Ms. ER8, Madrid). 93) Carving of ‘St. James’, Spanish 12-13 cent AD (in situ Church of Santiago, Betanzos, La Coruña).

Salaams Gonzalo, I was watching the Jinetta thread and wondering about those sketches with the broadsword and turned down quilons. Well placed and food for thought especially with the artwork seen above from the astrology chart and the Makamat al Harriri. Well placed thank you.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gonzalo G]

Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim.
I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword.

Regards

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim.
I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword.

Regards

Salaams Gonzalo G ~ Whilst no one would disagree that there are subtle similarities and shades of partial mirroring there is no direct technical form or construction inherent in both that could be construed as deliberate technical transfer... so what are the similarities? ... remembering that we have virtually no examples of the original Jinetta to compare with. So we are comparing the Sayf Yamaani with the highly ornate precious metal and decidedly aristocratic VIP version whilst trying to imagine what a Jinetta battle sword should look like... Not easy. In addition no one has a clue as to where the Berber version came from.

Where I do agree that the Jinetta had down turned quillons it has to be said that so did a lot of weapons in that culture broadly. It can be said that both swords would have been worn on a Baldric over the shoulder. This can be said about all Islamic swords and going back to Swords of The Prophet where it is known that this was the preferred way it was worn....and it is how the Sayf Yamaani was carried and I believe how the Jinetta was carried and how that also seems to have developed with a saddle baldric in addition.

Nevertheless I do generally agree that similarities are present in both these concepts and I look forward to seeing more evidence in that regard..and I support the general idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Back to basics. What are the implications in sword hilt design on the Sayf Yamaani?

1. Dealing with the Quilons. My view is that these follow the basic concept of a moon shape simply constructed. Many pieces of Omani silver jewelery follow the same idea from necklaces to ear rings, half bangles, and danglers.. Silver Jewelery invokes the idea of The Moon. Gold is for the Sun. I place below the full hilt of the Sayf Yamaani and next to it a jade hilt from another region .. showing the moon phase....and dragon head finials. In addition a few examples of moon shaped Omani Silver to compare.

2. The hand grip. This grip is not tubular but octagonal and well worn. It illustrates the Minaret form.

3. The Pommel looks like the top part of the Minaret from which emanates the call to prayer. It is multi sided often 6 or 8 sides...and sometimes decorated in simple silver script.

The emphasis is on simplicity of Islamic design in keeping with Ibaathi principles. Staunch without over decoration but simple and pious. This provides part of the final bridge between 1000 AD and almost 4 centuries before that when I posit the Sayf Yamaani originally appeared in the same configuration... and remained the same until the 19th C.

For this reason I suggest the sword is Iconic with the Ibaathi concept and was accepted in about 650 AD in the same way as Swords of The Prophet were instrumental in other regions.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.