Pattern Welded Straight Kris

[David]

Originally Posted by Ian

The hilt seems more recent, as does the scabbard which has been nailed rather than glued or wrapped.

Very nice kris.

Hi Ian...when i first looked at this i took those to be wooden pegs, not iron nails. I have an old sheath that uses dowels in that manner for attachment. Maybe Lee can verify this one way or the other.
...and yes, very nice kris.

[Ian]

Detlef:

As I noted in my initial response, Cato describes the shape of the "mouth" of the elephant on Lee's kris as being Maranao in origin (see B in attached pic from Cato). I agree that the pommel is similar to those seen on a number of Maguindanao kris, but the same style is also found mounted on blades that have Maranao characteristics. So we have a possible mix of tribal influences in the case of Lee's sword.

I think the hilt is not as old as the blade. Perhaps we have a Maguindanao remount of a Maranao kris, but I can't rule out an entirely Maranao sword. This raises the question, what determines the tribal designator for a Moro kris--is it the blade or the dress (hilt, scabbard, etc.)? And a corollary, if a Moro blade is refitted by another culture, say the T'boli, is it still a Moro kris?

Ian.

A. Sulu
B. Maranao
C. Maguindanao
D. "Crossover"

.

[Spunjer]

excellent question, Ian. Based on Cato's classification, I'm with you on the blade style that of Maranao origin.
with that said, i would like to add this: a lot of pandays travel from town to town. this has always been the custom from time immemorial. so if a Maranao panday travels to Sulu and decided to stay there for awhile, would his blade be considered Maranao even tho it was commissioned by a Tausug?

[Battara]

Ron brings out a good point.

I will add that the Marano and Maguindanao regions are adjacent, so cross influences should not be shocking, and the styles, even okir styles, are subtle and difficult to differentiate.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

excellent question, Ian. Based on Cato's classification, I'm with you on the blade style that of Maranao origin.
with that said, i would like to add this: a lot of pandays travel from town to town. this has always been the custom from time immemorial. so if a Maranao panday travels to Sulu and decided to stay there for awhile, would his blade be considered Maranao even tho it was commissioned by a Tausug?

Ron, we could take this further and perhaps with a clearer answer. If a Japanese swordsmith created a katana in, say, Thailand, would it still be a Japanese katana or would it be a version of a Thai daab? The sword would be indistinguishable from those he created in Japan, so how would one distinguish where it was made? The answer, clearly, is the katana is a katana wherever it is manufactured.

I would therefore say that if a Maranao craftsman created a Maranao kris in, say, Tawi Tawi, it would still be a Maranao kris because the nature of the kris is imbued by its creator and not by its place of manufacture.

To take this in a different direction. If a Maranao craftsman created a kris blade in the Maranao homeland and traded that blade to a Tausug in Jolo who then dressed it in traditional Sulu fashion, does that kris then become a Tausug kris or is it still a Maranao kris? Is it the blade or its hilt/scabbard that is the essential determinant of the culture to which this sword belongs? Or does it come down to whoever owns the sword and the culture/ethnic group in which it is being used?

I don't wish to hijack Lee's thread with these philosophical thoughts, so perhaps someone could start a new thread where these questions can be pursued in a more general way. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples from elsewhere that could be drawn into such a discussion. Charles has shown us a number of his cross-cultural pieces in the past that would be good subjects for this discussion.

Ian.

[David]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Ian...when i first looked at this i took those to be wooden pegs, not iron nails. I have an old sheath that uses dowels in that manner for attachment. Maybe Lee can verify this one way or the other.
...and yes, very nice kris.

Since my observation wasn't addressed i'd just like to ask again, especially of Lee, since the kris is in his hands.
Wooden pegs or iron nails?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David

Since my observation wasn't addressed i'd just like to ask again, especially of Lee, since the kris is in his hands.
Wooden pegs or iron nails?

Post #7

Originally Posted by Lee

... Those are wooden dowels holding the two halves of the scabbard together...

[Lee]

Meandering into philosophical discussions can be quite enjoyable, even if my level of existential squelch does cause me to skip over a lot.

Those are wooden pegs holding the two halves of the scabbard together. There were also wooden pegs securing the end of the scabbard, but one is absent and the other broken (and the rubber band that has usurped their purpose was removed for the photographs).

The scabbard is made of relatively soft wood and it is bulkier than many of the kris scabbards I have encountered. The photographs are not optimal for showing a glued repair of the mouthpiece on one side and several cracks on the opposite side in the same area. Would this scabbard have stood up to a generation of regular use - I seriously doubt it. I even wonder if this was made as a 'resting' scabbard.

While blades remain useful in a society as weapons or social status indicators, they are going to get remounted and passed around, especially if they are perceived as being of superior quality. The book I linked to above delves into the effects of this in Late Iron Age Finland and how this natural activity makes retrospective assignments and recognition of style trends difficult to impossible to discern. Whether by trade or conquest, good blades did 'get around' when they were relevant as they do today for our purposes of collectors. As collectors, we usually strive to maintain rather than change the objects. But if you were going to wear a sword in earnest every day it would likely find itself remounted to your taste. So, I think that any sword that remained in use for multiple generations may have seen re-mountings along the way both for structure and style. My favorite example of such is in the Swiss National Museum in Zurich where a pattern-welded Migration Period blade has been later mounted as a Katzbalger - now all phases are in good but 'excavated' condition.

The photographs of this sword were also not taken to show old combat edge damage, but there are some 'V' profile cuts just back from the tip that suggest this sword did see some practical physical use.

As to the semantics, I suppose auction and museum catalogers have worked this out. The sword formerly in the logo (removed in posthumous deference to Matchlock) could be accurately classified as 'takouba sword with silver mountings in Agadez style, late 20th to early 21st century, with an earlier (17th or early 18th century) European trade blade.' Here we give precedence to the whole in its current state.

Or one can go the other way around: 'tachi sword blade, Yamato Tegai school, inscribed Kanenaga, late 13th to early 14th century, in mixed later mounts' where the focus is just on the blade.

But to our current point, if this started out as Maranao, there is no reason that a Maguindanao might not have taken a fancy to this blade (as did I) and acquired it and remounted it to suit himself (as I have not).

[David]

Originally Posted by fernando

Post #7

Thanks Fernando. Don't know how i missed that. I'd say that marks this sheath as perhaps a little bit older than might have previously been thought.