KNEE PISTOL for COMMENT

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

HI STU AM POSTING PICTURES OF MY KNEE PISTOL,REGARDS RAJESH

Hi Rajesh,
Is the barrel of yours brass? Looks to have that sort of sheen to it. Also I note,(and commented on by Rick in his reply above,) that the lock on your pistols does not appear to fit the mortice properly either. Another possible replacement lock??
Stu

[Miguel]

Sorry to appear so thick but would you mind explaining to me why it is called a knee pistol, it looks like a blunder us to me but then I have scarcely any knowledge of firearms hence my question.
Miguel

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Sorry to appear so thick but would you mind explaining to me why it is called a knee pistol, it looks like a blunder us to me but then I have scarcely any knowledge of firearms hence my question.
Miguel

Hi Miguel,
These, I suppose could be called a "blunderbuss pistol". They are not designed to be fired from the shoulder as the stock is far too short, so are not a true blunderbuss. When fired from horse or camel back, the knee would be the most useful part of the body to rest the stock against.....hence I guess the term "Knee pistol".
If you have a look at the old postcard of the Sheiks kindly posted above by Rajesh, you will get an idea of the relative size of these weapons.
Hope this clarifies your question.
Stu

[Pukka Bundook]

Stu,

I think you have been talking to a pal of mine, old M. T, to get this one. :-)
He's on his way to our annual shoot here in Canada right now.

Very nice and lots of age to it! Very well used , showing they were not kept "just for show".

In GBG, 1540 -1740, W Keith -Neal shows an English pair of these. Similar in overall looks, but also it shows that such were made in the Uk, ....at least once!
Keith Neal had thoughts that they may have originated in England, and spread eastwards, but I cannot remember if I thought he had a strong case for believing such. To me, as they were so common in Turkish lands, I think someone had the pair made in England as a novelty, but do recall they had also seen much use, and if memory serves, one had a sling for casting over the shoulder when on horseback or similar.
Very nice Stu, & congrats!

Richard.

[rickystl]

I expect the term "knee" pistol is a more contemporary term. The gun being fired from horseback with the butt of the stock against the knee, theigh, waist, or maybe even the front of the saddle seems to be the only logical explanation.
It's also light enough to be held in one hand like a normal pistol. I don't really see any advantage to this design over a typical horse pistol. But for some reason they remained popular in the Eastern markets for a long time.

Hi Bandook. Yes Stu, that's a good question: Is that a BRASS barrel on your piece? It does look like it from the one photo. To me, the lock looks original to the mortise. Just a bit of wood eaten away from constant use. I too have that photo in my library showing the knee pistol. Very neat. Let us know about the barrel on your's. Don't recall seeing one with a brass barrel.

Rick

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by rickystl

It's also light enough to be held in one hand like a normal pistol. I don't really see any advantage to this design over a typical horse pistol. k

Do not forget that these barrels normally have been loaded with a good handful of buckshot and the appropriate amount of powder. So I think that it was'nt that easy to held the knee pistol in one hand. The recoil was certainly remarkable, so the knee, better the thigh or the saddle would have been the most useful part of the body to rest the stock against.
A knee pistol of my collection in a condition rarely found.
corrado26

[rickystl]

Hi Corrado.

That is a magnificant example, and in ultra fine condition!!!! What a beauty!!!
I would almost be scared to handle it without gloves. LOL!!!
What a fantastic piece to have in a collection.

Rick

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Miguel,
These, I suppose could be called a "blunderbuss pistol". They are not designed to be fired from the shoulder as the stock is far too short, so are not a true blunderbuss. When fired from horse or camel back, the knee would be the most useful part of the body to rest the stock against.....hence I guess the term "Knee pistol".
If you have a look at the old postcard of the Sheiks kindly posted above by Rajesh, you will get an idea of the relative size of these weapons.
Hope this clarifies your question.
Stu

Thanks for the explanation Stu you have answered my question perfectly for which I am much obliged
Miguel

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Rajesh,
Is the barrel of yours brass? Looks to have that sort of sheen to it. Also I note,(and commented on by Rick in his reply above,) that the lock on your pistols does not appear to fit the mortice properly either. Another possible replacement lock??
Stu

Hi Stu ,yes its brass and am posting some more images for you,regards Rajesh

[rickystl]

Hi Bandook.

WOW!!! That is a brass barrel. Most likely European made. This is the first Knee Pistol I've seen with a brass barrel. Between the brass barrel on your's and the hook breech on Stu's, .........first time I've seen either. Very neat.
Thanks for the additional pics.

Rick

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Bandook.

WOW!!! That is a brass barrel. Most likely European made. This is the first Knee Pistol I've seen with a brass barrel. Between the brass barrel on your's and the hook breech on Stu's, .........first time I've seen either. Very neat.
Thanks for the additional pics.

Rick

Thanks Rick for the information ,please could you approx. date my pistol,i assume this is Turkish
Regards Rajesh

[rickystl]

Hi Rajesh. As others will confirm, it's almost impossible to accurately date these guns. They were used over such a long period of time, and most (like the horse pistols) were unmarked. But the brass barrel tells me it is more likely from the first quarter of the 19th Century when brass barrels in Europe were more in vogue, and likely the barrel was European made.

Hi Estcrh. Thank you so much for these wonderful photos!! This is the first time I've seen these. I'll add these to my library. Great pics !!!! I've seen many of these Knee Pistols with either a belt hook or a single ring attached the the rear lock screw for suspension to either a waist belt or a shoulder sling, as the photos show. Then, there are others (like my own) that have no provision for a sling/belt attachement. I once saw a Knee Pistol with a section of leather simply wrapped and stiched around the breech area of the pistol with a leather loop for suspension to another belt/shoulder sling. It was obvious to me that the leather was original to the gun. But alas, it was not for sale.

The main purpose of the blunderbuss barrel design was the ease of reloading, and the ability of being able to use a variety of shot. I can say from practicle shooting experience, that the use of shot in a blunderbuss barrel does not spread the projectiles any wider than a typical shotgun barrel. These Knee Pistols would be a close range weapon. So I think that if they were loaded with shot that the multiple projectiles would not only hit the opposing rider, but his horse also. But I guess that probably happened too. LOL

Hi Coorado. The name on the lock plate is probably spurious. It was probably added while the gun was being assembled in the Ottomas. The letters just making use of any English letters to give the impression of Europen manufacture. This was done so often on guns of every quality in the Region. However, the lock does indeen look European made to me. It has both English and French styling cues. Not really surprising. The quality of the lock internals lead me to believe it's Europen origin. Looks well assembled.

Many of the Horse Pistols seemed to favor French pistol design of the mid-18th Century. While the locks on these Knee Pistols seem to be all over the place. The Knee Pistols, like the Horse Pistols, for the most part are unmarked as to the maker or origin.
Here is a pic of my Knee Pistol I posted here a while back. While I'm convinced that both the barrel and lock are of European origin, it's is unmarked.

Stu: Thanks for starting what turned out to be such an interesting Thread for us gun enthusiests. LOL And the great pics from Estcrh.

Rick

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Rajesh. As others will confirm, it's almost impossible to accurately date these guns. They were used over such a long period of time, and most (like the horse pistols) were unmarked. But the brass barrel tells me it is more likely from the first quarter of the 19th Century when brass barrels in Europe were more in vogue, and likely the barrel was European made.

Hi Estcrh. Thank you so much for these wonderful photos!! This is the first time I've seen these. I'll add these to my library. Great pics !!!! I've seen many of these Knee Pistols with either a belt hook or a single ring attached the the rear lock screw for suspension to either a waist belt or a shoulder sling, as the photos show. Then, there are others (like my own) that have no provision for a sling/belt attachement. I once saw a Knee Pistol with a section of leather simply wrapped and stiched around the breech area of the pistol with a leather loop for suspension to another belt/shoulder sling. It was obvious to me that the leather was original to the gun. But alas, it was not for sale.

The main purpose of the blunderbuss barrel design was the ease of reloading, and the ability of being able to use a variety of shot. I can say from practicle shooting experience, that the use of shot in a blunderbuss barrel does not spread the projectiles any wider than a typical shotgun barrel. These Knee Pistols would be a close range weapon. So I think that if they were loaded with shot that the multiple projectiles would not only hit the opposing rider, but his horse also. But I guess that probably happened too. LOL

Hi Coorado. The name on the lock plate is probably spurious. It was probably added while the gun was being assembled in the Ottomas. The letters just making use of any English letters to give the impression of Europen manufacture. This was done so often on guns of every quality in the Region. However, the lock does indeen look European made to me. It has both English and French styling cues. Not really surprising. The quality of the lock internals lead me to believe it's Europen origin. Looks well assembled.

Many of the Horse Pistols seemed to favor French pistol design of the mid-18th Century. While the locks on these Knee Pistols seem to be all over the place. The Knee Pistols, like the Horse Pistols, for the most part are unmarked as to the maker or origin.
Here is a pic of my Knee Pistol I posted here a while back. While I'm convinced that both the barrel and lock are of European origin, it's is unmarked.

Stu: Thanks for starting what turned out to be such an interesting Thread for us gun enthusiests. LOL And the great pics from Estcrh.

Rick

Hi Rick, Very nice pistol you have there. Happy to have started the thread and am pleased with the response of other members.
Stu

[estcrh]

So were are all of the blunderbuss long guns?