My presentation and a new friend

Kubur · 21st May 2017, 07:45 AM

Hi Clement, Hi Jim,

Now i can answer to you.
Look at the book of Andersen Gold and coral.
Look also at the Ottoman powder flask from Algiers that I posted before.
The quality of the work is typical from the 19th c. and the Ottomans.
The quality is amazing for the hilt and the scabbard.
The blade is normal for this so-called weeding nimcha.
By the way they are the real nimcha the short swords (see Elgood).
The other nimcha from Morocco are saifs of course.
As Jim said these swords are attributed to the Kabyles in Algeria.
The quality of the work pushes me to think that your nimcha, Clement, was done in Algiers.

Best,
Kubur

CNK1 · 21st May 2017, 05:23 PM

Hello Kubur,

thank's for your help on this nimcha, a really interesting piece of history !

Do you think this one was made for someone special ? This is the only one of this "type" I've ever seen so I'm really curious to understand in which circumstance it was made.

Best regards,
Clement

Jim McDougall · 21st May 2017, 05:55 PM

Thank you Kubur for noting the Ottoman styling in this motif, and Clement, you have managed to collect a most handsome example of this type of Maghrebi weapon, in the manner of the 'wedding' type ceremonial pieces.

It is important to remember that traditional style and influences of other cultures and periods are not ceased at the demise of rule or change of power . Style and decoration are simply local preferences which may reflect many influences.
Even the Kabyle style blade may have been a gift or otherwise obtained from those people or regions, and mounted in appropriate dress to location, in this case appearing to be Algiers or that area.

CNK1 · 22nd May 2017, 02:26 PM

Hello Kubur, hello Jim

thank's again for your help ! Unfortunately I haven't the "Gold and coral" book but it's look like to be a very nice/ documented book !

Really happy to know where this nimcha come from, any idea of the personality whose carried this one?

Jim I totally understand what you mean, I took the reasoning in the wrong way,
it is not because it is of the Ottoman style that it is of the Ottoman period.

Best regards,
Clement

Kubur · 22nd May 2017, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNK1

Hello Kubur, hello Jim

thank's again for your help ! Unfortunately I haven't the "Gold and coral" book but it's look like to be a very nice/ documented book !

Really happy to know where this nimcha come from, any idea of the personality whose carried this one?

Jim I totally understand what you mean, I took the reasoning in the wrong way,
it is not because it is of the Ottoman style that it is of the Ottoman period.

Best regards,
Clement

Dear Clement,

Jim is (always) right.
For example, Algerian moukhala were produced until 1920.
And they were nearly the same than those produced during the Ottoman period.
Nevertheless I think yours is an old one 1800-1850 (due to the quality).
For the "personnality"

Probably someone with a big mustache

CNK1 · 22nd May 2017, 04:17 PM

Thank's again Kubur !

I've understand what mean Jim but maybe I misspoke

Anyway I'm really satisfied of this piece, she already took her place in front of my ottoman bishaq !

Unfortunately I don't have the big mustache to display with

Jim McDougall · 22nd May 2017, 07:45 PM

Clement, again I must say you have come into the realm of arms collecting with a great piece, and it is always heartening to see someone with true passion and interest in learning about them as they begin collecting. They do indeed speak to us as they tell us their stories.

As for the person who might have had such a well appointed weapon, all we might surmise is that they were likely a person of means. Perhaps to someone of some official standing as this seems almost to be a 'commissioned' piece with that most unusual linear star motif.

Kubur, thank you for the kind words!!! May I ask that you have a word with my wife!!!???

who of course holds quite the contrary.

CNK1 · 23rd May 2017, 10:05 AM

Hello Jim,

thank's for your friendly message but If I have learn something from collecting, there is no passion/collection without sharing and when I can exchange with other enthusiasts this is the true meaning of collection for me !

Best regards
Clement

21st May 2017, 07:45 AM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Clement, Hi Jim, Now i can answer to you. Look at the book of Andersen Gold and coral. Look also at the Ottoman powder flask from Algiers that I posted before. The quality of the work is typical from the 19th c. and the Ottomans. The quality is amazing for the hilt and the scabbard. The blade is normal for this so-called weeding nimcha. By the way they are the real nimcha the short swords (see Elgood). The other nimcha from Morocco are saifs of course. As Jim said these swords are attributed to the Kabyles in Algeria. The quality of the work pushes me to think that your nimcha, Clement, was done in Algiers. Best, Kubur

21st May 2017, 05:23 PM	#2
CNK1 Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 43	Hello Kubur, thank's for your help on this nimcha, a really interesting piece of history ! Do you think this one was made for someone special ? This is the only one of this "type" I've ever seen so I'm really curious to understand in which circumstance it was made. Best regards, Clement

21st May 2017, 05:55 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,595	Thank you Kubur for noting the Ottoman styling in this motif, and Clement, you have managed to collect a most handsome example of this type of Maghrebi weapon, in the manner of the 'wedding' type ceremonial pieces. It is important to remember that traditional style and influences of other cultures and periods are not ceased at the demise of rule or change of power . Style and decoration are simply local preferences which may reflect many influences. Even the Kabyle style blade may have been a gift or otherwise obtained from those people or regions, and mounted in appropriate dress to location, in this case appearing to be Algiers or that area.

22nd May 2017, 02:26 PM	#4
CNK1 Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 43	Hello Kubur, hello Jim thank's again for your help ! Unfortunately I haven't the "Gold and coral" book but it's look like to be a very nice/ documented book ! Really happy to know where this nimcha come from, any idea of the personality whose carried this one? Jim I totally understand what you mean, I took the reasoning in the wrong way, it is not because it is of the Ottoman style that it is of the Ottoman period. Best regards, Clement

22nd May 2017, 04:17 PM	#6
CNK1 Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 43	Thank's again Kubur ! I've understand what mean Jim but maybe I misspoke Anyway I'm really satisfied of this piece, she already took her place in front of my ottoman bishaq ! Unfortunately I don't have the big mustache to display with

22nd May 2017, 07:45 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,595	Clement, again I must say you have come into the realm of arms collecting with a great piece, and it is always heartening to see someone with true passion and interest in learning about them as they begin collecting. They do indeed speak to us as they tell us their stories. As for the person who might have had such a well appointed weapon, all we might surmise is that they were likely a person of means. Perhaps to someone of some official standing as this seems almost to be a 'commissioned' piece with that most unusual linear star motif. Kubur, thank you for the kind words!!! May I ask that you have a word with my wife!!!??? who of course holds quite the contrary.

23rd May 2017, 10:05 AM	#8
CNK1 Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 43	Hello Jim, thank's for your friendly message but If I have learn something from collecting, there is no passion/collection without sharing and when I can exchange with other enthusiasts this is the true meaning of collection for me ! Best regards Clement