chilanum/ kanjar daggers Fakes ? Dates ?

mariusgmioc · 25th April 2017, 03:44 AM

It is as Rick said.

The knucklebow is supposed to serve as a protection for the fingers they are normally made of steel in one piece with th cross-guard and the hilt.

Whether bone or plastic, the second one is fake.

francantolin · 25th April 2017, 06:26 AM

Ok thanks all,

For the ''bone'' hilt kanjar-chilanum,
I was comparing with old ''precious'' items with jade, ivory hilt...

But indeed never saw a chilanum hilt model not made of steel or metal.

I'll look for return guarantee cause I can't handle it !

francantolin · 25th April 2017, 06:58 PM

Hilt like this one ... ( I found the picture on internet, India 19th )

made of ivory, the fingers protection will not be helpful, purely aesthetic ...

BANDOOK · 26th April 2017, 07:44 AM

Please do not touch them,they are reproductions from Jodhpur ,Rajasthan
I have seen many appearing in auctions being sold as antiques
best regards
rajesh

motan · 26th April 2017, 09:32 AM

I agree with BANDOOK. Since the typical Jodhpur patterns of folded steel are now recognized by most collectors, "remakes" have become more and more sophisticated. They include many types, like pieces that are made to look old, refitting of real old wootz blades with new hilts and koftgari, cleaning and "redecorating" genuine rusty old pieces and almost every imaginable manipulation. They also appear more and more in secondary markets that are not linked to India directly. Such perfect koftgari on a piece that is supposed to be sveral centuries old should always make you suspicious. Even in the best original pieces, some wear should be visible.

francantolin · 26th April 2017, 05:21 PM

Hello,

thank you everybody ! Yes this koftgari is too perfect for be true !

Sometimes so difficult to recognize fake from real,
especially for this kind of mixed items : not a ''basic'' indian/chinese replica
not a museum antique piece !

Suspicious too, the price: asking 300$ instead of 900 ...
What will a good copy cost ? 100-200 $ ( nothing ?!!

)

francantolin · 28th April 2017, 07:28 PM

What about this one with jade hilt ?!!

coming from The Louvre Museum in Paris ...

Ian · 28th April 2017, 07:49 PM

Francantolin:

We don't discuss values here (please read again the Forum Rules at the top of the forum page). Anyone wishing to discuss the value of an item should do so via PM or email.

You have a PM from me.

Ian

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello,

thank you everybody ! Yes this koftgari is too perfect for be true !

Sometimes so difficult to recognize fake from real,
especially for this kind of mixed items : not a ''basic'' indian/chinese replica
not a museum antique piece !

Suspicious too, the price: asking 300$ instead of 900 ...
What will a good copy cost ? 100-200 $ ( nothing ?!!

)

25th April 2017, 06:58 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hilt like this one ... ( I found the picture on internet, India 19th ) made of ivory, the fingers protection will not be helpful, purely aesthetic ... Attached Images

26th April 2017, 09:32 AM	#5
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	BANDOOK is right I agree with BANDOOK. Since the typical Jodhpur patterns of folded steel are now recognized by most collectors, "remakes" have become more and more sophisticated. They include many types, like pieces that are made to look old, refitting of real old wootz blades with new hilts and koftgari, cleaning and "redecorating" genuine rusty old pieces and almost every imaginable manipulation. They also appear more and more in secondary markets that are not linked to India directly. Such perfect koftgari on a piece that is supposed to be sveral centuries old should always make you suspicious. Even in the best original pieces, some wear should be visible.

28th April 2017, 07:28 PM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	What about this one with jade hilt ?!! coming from The Louvre Museum in Paris ... Attached Images

25th April 2017, 03:44 AM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	It is as Rick said. The knucklebow is supposed to serve as a protection for the fingers they are normally made of steel in one piece with th cross-guard and the hilt. Whether bone or plastic, the second one is fake.

25th April 2017, 06:26 AM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Ok thanks all, For the ''bone'' hilt kanjar-chilanum, I was comparing with old ''precious'' items with jade, ivory hilt... But indeed never saw a chilanum hilt model not made of steel or metal. I'll look for return guarantee cause I can't handle it !

26th April 2017, 07:44 AM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	Please do not touch them,they are reproductions from Jodhpur ,Rajasthan I have seen many appearing in auctions being sold as antiques best regards rajesh

26th April 2017, 05:21 PM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello, thank you everybody ! Yes this koftgari is too perfect for be true ! Sometimes so difficult to recognize fake from real, especially for this kind of mixed items : not a ''basic'' indian/chinese replica not a museum antique piece ! Suspicious too, the price: asking 300$ instead of 900 ... What will a good copy cost ? 100-200 $ ( nothing ?!! )