A little help is welcome.

Tim Simmons · 15th January 2005, 02:25 PM

Preparing my pictures.Tim

tom hyle · 15th January 2005, 05:48 PM

I'm nagged by the feeling that the hide covering on the handle is not original, but perhaps a repair (?) The carving on the pommel seems finer than would show well through it, and that doesn't seem "right". There's more, but start with that, if you will. You can look at the actual object, eh?....see what you think. The blade is really nice, and the pommel carving looks nice, but the hide work looks fairly crude; field-repair to tighten a hilt? to weatherize it? to bind splits? I recently saw an old Mexican army sabre whose entire hilt, handle, pommel, and brass barred basket, had been (seemingly and allegedly originally) covered in leather. I know that leather covered hilts are common in much of Africa, but this work looks to me atypical, mainly in its crudity, and crudity as compared to both other pieces as well as to other elements of this piece? Hard for me to tell from the pics though, whether it's crudity or just drying/damage???????

Freddy · 15th January 2005, 06:15 PM

I don't think the leather covering is a repair. A lot of knives and swords from Cameroon have these. Look at the close-ups I made.

First view is the front of the handle. Notice the iron banding on the handle.

Second pic shows the back. The seam of the leather appears to be open. I think at one time the leather shrunk.

The pommel of the handle was once also totally covered with leather, but this has worn off, showing the metal 'skeleton' under the leather. In between, the space is filled with some 'soft stuff'. Can't make out what it is.

To complete the picture, a side view :

tom hyle · 15th January 2005, 06:22 PM

Thanks a lot! I just expected words; pictures; 4,000 words or something. The construction is much different than I'd thought. The soft stuff could it be cloth, even? I've seen this in leather covered African hilts. I hadn't realized those bands were iron; I'm with you on the leather being original now. That is a big word "iron"; makes a big difference. I thouht they were leather. What a cool sword. The leather over metal over soft stuff constuction is seen on takouba.....
You know, sometimes the similarities and universality of concept and design fascinate me, but also, just the amazing variety; it often seems inconceivable it can ever all be catalogued or understood; what an enormous challenge................

Freddy · 15th January 2005, 06:40 PM

In this thread Flavio showed some pics from Zirngibl and Fischer (by the way, a great book !).

Here's one of the pictured sword 'live' :

Notice the similarity in construction of the handle (not the shape, of course). Some kind of material, I think it's a piece of wood bound with cord, covered with leather. The second pic shows the front, the third the back of the handle.
This sword is attributed to the Bali-tribe living in Cameroon. The sheath consists of some wooden pieces held together with rattan binding. The loop is also covered in leather.
When I found this piece, I didn't know anything about it. I had never seen a similar sword, but I had to have it. I just couldn't resist. A friend pointed out to me that he found a similar one in the book of Zirngibl and Fisher.
When you find something that really gets to you, first buy it and think later

.......no matter what the wife says

capt.smash · 15th January 2005, 08:00 PM

A sweet find

15th January 2005, 02:25 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Preparing my pictures.Tim

15th January 2005, 05:48 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I'm nagged by the feeling that the hide covering on the handle is not original, but perhaps a repair (?) The carving on the pommel seems finer than would show well through it, and that doesn't seem "right". There's more, but start with that, if you will. You can look at the actual object, eh?....see what you think. The blade is really nice, and the pommel carving looks nice, but the hide work looks fairly crude; field-repair to tighten a hilt? to weatherize it? to bind splits? I recently saw an old Mexican army sabre whose entire hilt, handle, pommel, and brass barred basket, had been (seemingly and allegedly originally) covered in leather. I know that leather covered hilts are common in much of Africa, but this work looks to me atypical, mainly in its crudity, and crudity as compared to both other pieces as well as to other elements of this piece? Hard for me to tell from the pics though, whether it's crudity or just drying/damage???????

15th January 2005, 06:15 PM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I don't think the leather covering is a repair. A lot of knives and swords from Cameroon have these. Look at the close-ups I made. First view is the front of the handle. Notice the iron banding on the handle. Second pic shows the back. The seam of the leather appears to be open. I think at one time the leather shrunk. The pommel of the handle was once also totally covered with leather, but this has worn off, showing the metal 'skeleton' under the leather. In between, the space is filled with some 'soft stuff'. Can't make out what it is. To complete the picture, a side view :

15th January 2005, 06:22 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Thanks a lot! I just expected words; pictures; 4,000 words or something. The construction is much different than I'd thought. The soft stuff could it be cloth, even? I've seen this in leather covered African hilts. I hadn't realized those bands were iron; I'm with you on the leather being original now. That is a big word "iron"; makes a big difference. I thouht they were leather. What a cool sword. The leather over metal over soft stuff constuction is seen on takouba..... You know, sometimes the similarities and universality of concept and design fascinate me, but also, just the amazing variety; it often seems inconceivable it can ever all be catalogued or understood; what an enormous challenge................

15th January 2005, 06:40 PM	#5
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	In this thread Flavio showed some pics from Zirngibl and Fischer (by the way, a great book !). Here's one of the pictured sword 'live' : Notice the similarity in construction of the handle (not the shape, of course). Some kind of material, I think it's a piece of wood bound with cord, covered with leather. The second pic shows the front, the third the back of the handle. This sword is attributed to the Bali-tribe living in Cameroon. The sheath consists of some wooden pieces held together with rattan binding. The loop is also covered in leather. When I found this piece, I didn't know anything about it. I had never seen a similar sword, but I had to have it. I just couldn't resist. A friend pointed out to me that he found a similar one in the book of Zirngibl and Fisher. When you find something that really gets to you, first buy it and think later .......no matter what the wife says

15th January 2005, 08:00 PM	#6
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	A sweet find