The flowers on the tulwar hilts

[Jim McDougall]

Amen Jens!!!
I think this is one of the reasons that the study of ethnographic weaponry SHOULD be included in the academic study of that as well as anthropology, archaeology and many of the humanities. They are iconic in reflecting so much history of the cultures and all manner of groups which they are from.

I know that in the many years I have studied the weapons, I have learned so much on so many aspects of these cultures that technically are not at all directly related to the arms themselves. It is a dynamically broad picture that actually has few bounds and perpetually grows as more is learned.
Ibrahiim, you too have followed this path, and its great to learn together as we all seek more answers in these many diverse areas.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see http://www.christies.com/features/Bl...rd-5843-1.aspx where the continued demolition of AURANGZEB remaining family members is explained.


See also https://books.google.com.om/books?id...tribes&f=false Which describes Indian Culture and decoration across a wide spectrum of forms.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you for the links Ibrahiim.
One should be aware of, that flowers shown on hilts are seldom what they really looks like. The artists were not botanists, and so they often made the flowers the way which fitted them best.
The khanjarli hilt below asows this quite clearly. The flowers are supposed to be of the same kind, but the number of petals are quite different, 7, 8, 9 and 8.
On some hilts the flowers shown are made in detail, but in most cases this is not so.

[Jim McDougall]

Very well noted of course Jens, and the question of the intent behind the artisan's depiction of flowers and botanical themes can only be speculated.

It is often argued that in such creations, shapes and devices in either the decoration or fashioning of design elements are simply aesthetic. However, in many circumstances where there are mystical, religious, or other situations at hand we must consider the possibility of otherwise.

As we look at the flowers on this khanjhari, which are noted to have varying numbers of petals, it is tempting to consider that perhaps gemetria with mystical or magical properties could be in play.
It would seem that the preparation of a simple petaled flower in silver in a group would be easier if all the same. With the case that there are two (2) of the eight petaled flower, could this be a gemetric or magic number as with the 1414 and 1441 etc on European blades?

Though perhaps a specious exercise, and quite possibly a simple matter of aesthetics or coincidence as so often insisted, the idea is interesting if not nearly compelling.

As with anything artistic, there are always nuances, and in cases flowers may have been portrayed symbolically in a metaphoric sense. Also, as I believe Markel noted, the accuracy and detail of many floral themes degenerated along with the decay of the Mughal Empire, and as artisans failed to pass on their skills in generations following.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I understand that precise botanical studies of flora were passed on or sought by the Mughal painters so that greater accuracy could be attained ...There are many examples of inaccuracies in design and colour and it was only when companies such as EIC became involved that true scientific drawings could be referred to...as outlined at #63 above viz;

Quote."What seems odd is that the zenith of floral paintings seems to be at the time Dara Shiko was inspired to have artists view flowers especially vases filled with blosoms...and more weirdly influenced by European (EIC) styles which were copied in an attempt to show more realism in Moghul art.

The prime reasoning behind accepting into Moghul Art the European exactness of botanical studies in floral form was that it enabled greater accuracy in colours and in lifelike portrayals of subject matter". Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I will add that ~In respect of the above post ~For the original document by JP Losty see http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/...spiration.html

[Jens Nordlunde]

Ibrahiim, the thing about floral decoration is not only about the floral decoration about the time of Dara Shiko (1615-1659). THe floral decoration was used centuries before and after.
Some years ago I had a PM discussion with a member on this forum. The thing was, that he was a botanic, and he did not recognise the different flowers, but being a scientist, he would, of course, want more prof than shown on most weapons, and I respect him for this.
More artistic writers/scholars are freer in their judgement which flowers are shown on the weapons, but they also warn that the number of petals should not always be taken too serious.
So this leaves the rest of us guessing, but it is sure that the poppy flower was very popular, and so was the sun flower in the south.