Bronze keris ?

[David]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I don't get it?!

What's such a big deal to make a blade of bronze?!

I guess one can make a Keris blade even of aluminium, solid gold, or even plastic but does this automatically make it an authentic and collectable keris?!

Albeit I wouldn't mind collecting kerises made of solid gold.

Actual Marius, old bronze keris are a real thing and may in some ways be more valuable to a collector of keris than one made of solid gold.
The real question here would be is this a legitimate old bronze keris. I have some serious doubts.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by David

Actual Marius, old bronze keris are a real thing and may in some ways be more valuable to a collector of keris than one made of solid gold.
The real question here would be is this a legitimate old bronze keris. I have some serious doubts.

Thank you David for the explanation!

I would still prefer a gold Keris to a bronze one.

[mariusgmioc]

Regarding the age of the Keris, my bet is on very recent production by casting.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes.

[Battara]

My question is would the bronze make this more powerful or talismanic than the usual kris?

[A. G. Maisey]

Not really, the smith working in iron is a magician, a wizard, who can take sand and turn it into something else, something with a soul. He is closely associated with the concept of death and rebirth. In a farming society in particular he is almost on a direct line to the Gods.

However, bronze keris are rare and an old bronze keris was very probably used in blood sacrifice.

New or recent bronze keris are made by re-cycling damaged gamelan instruments.

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

My question is would the bronze make this more powerful or talismanic than the usual kris?

I believe that would all depend on the intent and purpose of the keris. I belief that Alan has suggested that bronze may have been used in certain keris because it was seen as a more appropriate metal for a blade used in blood sacrifice. However that is a more practical, albeit spiritual use for a blade, not necessarily talismanic. I could be wrong, but i am not sure there is any metal considered to hold more talismanic properties in this part of the world than iron. But if you are Hindu and making a blood sacrifice bronze might be preferable.
Marius, the only reason i might personally prefer a solid gold keris would be to melt it down and sell the ingot to buy an authentic old bronze one, which i gather are somewhat rarer than ones of gold. AFAIK no other metals are considered appropriate for a true keris other than iron and bronze. A gold one would be nothing more than sculpted money, yes? Does anyone have any photos of a bronze blade that could be considered authentic? If so it would be great to see one here.

[A. G. Maisey]

This was published in my "Interpretation ---" article.

I do not own it.

[satsujinken]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This was published in my "Interpretation ---" article.

I do not own it.

got an offer for something like that, recently found buried in rice field near a river in Bojonegoro

this type as you are well aware is (supposedly) from Kabudhan or Majapahit era. They said old keris like this has mendak intergrated as part of the blade, and the pesi is square shaped

looked like bronze, but it rusted ... does bronze rust ? what do you think, Alan ?

Donny

[satsujinken]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes.

so my guess is right ? kamardikan ?

I believed the previous owner used metal cleaners to clean the blade, but hey, the metal do looked like metal used in gamelan

Would you mind explaining more about bronze keris and blood sacrifice, Alan ?

thank you in advance


Donny

[David]

Thanks for posting that example Alan.

[A. G. Maisey]

I've forgotten most of this Donny, but in some Hindu sacrifices the preferred blade needed to be bronze, in my memory the Horse Sacrifice required a bronze blade to be used, but don't trust my memory, it is sometimes faulty.

In Jawa it seems likely that blood sacrifice occurred at Candi Prambanan, and blood sacrifice is a part of Hindu ritual --- and of course Islamic ritual.

You won't find this sort of thing reading up about keris, to understand the keris you do not read books about keris, you need to read extensively in anthropology, history, sociology, comparative religion, art.

You do not study keris to learn keris.

[Battara]

Thank you Alan.

[satsujinken]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I've forgotten most of this Donny, but in some Hindu sacrifices the preferred blade needed to be bronze, in my memory the Horse Sacrifice required a bronze blade to be used, but don't trust my memory, it is sometimes faulty.

In Jawa it seems likely that blood sacrifice occurred at Candi Prambanan, and blood sacrifice is a part of Hindu ritual --- and of course Islamic ritual.

You won't find this sort of thing reading up about keris, to understand the keris you do not read books about keris, you need to read extensively in anthropology, history, sociology, comparative religion, art.

You do not study keris to learn keris.

no wonder I never heard of it before. And that's exactly why I come here ... to ask for advice from you

Donny

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I've forgotten most of this Donny, but in some Hindu sacrifices the preferred blade needed to be bronze, in my memory the Horse Sacrifice required a bronze blade to be used, but don't trust my memory, it is sometimes faulty.

In Jawa it seems likely that blood sacrifice occurred at Candi Prambanan, and blood sacrifice is a part of Hindu ritual --- and of course Islamic ritual.

You won't find this sort of thing reading up about keris, to understand the keris you do not read books about keris, you need to read extensively in anthropology, history, sociology, comparative religion, art.

You do not study keris to learn keris.

At the time the Vedas were wrote (and thus the horse sacrifices) I think they only had copper and bronze blades so there was no possibility of using an Iron or steel blade. Some Indians claim however Ayas is Iron and use this to claim that Indians were the first to forge Iron blades (despite the fact Aryans came into India from the North thus even if it were true Aryans were not Indians)