Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 5th January 2017, 09:36 PM   #1
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,019
Default

I went to Jawa for the first time in the late 1960's. One of my objectives was to try to learn a little about keris, and of course to add to my collection. I found keris everywhere, in markets, used as trade marks, in museums, used in dress by virtually every man when he dressed formally.

In the mid 1970's I decided that I really wanted to get involved in intensive keris study, but I was undecided as to whether I should go to the Malay Peninsula for this, or whether I should continue with my visits to Jawa.

I investigated the keris situation in the area of Malaysia that was comprised of Old Malaya, and what I discovered was that a combination of the British presence, very aggressive Islam, and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil.

I decided that it would simply be too hard to try to learn anything at all about the keris in Malaysia, so I concentrated my attention on Jawa and to a slightly lesser extent on Bali. In retrospect it was very fortunate that I did so.

During the 1970's keris culture in Jawa got a shot in the arm, when the efforts of several people:- Deitrich Drescher, Garrett & Bronwen Solyom, Panembahan Harjonegoro ( he was not a Panembahan at that time) Djeno Harumbrojo and his brothers, Empu Suparman Supowijoyo, Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo, saw a revival in keris culture in Jawa.

This revival was accelerated by economic and societal conditions in Jawa, right up until the present time. The Javanese keris culture has now returned to a vibrant part of the overall societal structure.

In Bali the revival was not so aggressive, and probably did not start to really move until about 20 years ago.

However, in Malaysia it is very difficult to identify exactly when there was a revival of interest in the keris, and just what the extent of this is, even today. Yes, there is an awareness, but the impression I gain from the people I correspond with in Malaysia is that the keris movement there is still feeling its way, and that if there ever was a deep cultural knowledge of keris in the past, this has pretty much been lost because of the social conditions I referred to earlier.

It has even been said to me by more than one person living in Malaysia that the keris culture in present day Malaysia has very little to do with keris and more to do with social climbing. It has also been remarked that people raise their own societal position by pretending to have "secret knowledge" when in fact they themselves are inventing this knowledge.

There can be not the smallest doubt that the core of keris culture is to be found in Jawa, and since Jawa is where the keris originated, and where the culture has never died, this is as it should be. However, although I do focus my attention on Jawa, I would be more than willing to gather information from some other areas if I were to be convinced that the information I was able to gather was genuine, old, grassroots information.

Regrettably my efforts to gather information of this quality have invariably failed and investigation has indicated that the information I have gathered from, amongst other places, Malaysia, has almost invariably been of quite recent origin.

This is one of the reasons for my disinterest in keris from outside the Heartland of Keris Culture :- Jawa/Bali.

Personally I look askance at any information in relation to keris that has originated in present-day Malaysia. Possibly some things might be accurate, but then how can that be verified? If some things are modern inventions how many of these modern inventions are there? How do we differentiate between the true and the false?

Perhaps 30 or 40 years of continuing investigation, using the audit approach might be able to give us some answers, but at the present time there are too many unanswered questions for any certainty to be attached to any information coming out of Malaysia.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2017, 09:04 AM   #2
F. de Luzon
Member
 
F. de Luzon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
I went to Jawa for the first time in the late 1960's. One of my objectives was to try to learn a little about keris, and of course to add to my collection. I found keris everywhere, in markets, used as trade marks, in museums, used in dress by virtually every man when he dressed formally.

In the mid 1970's I decided that I really wanted to get involved in intensive keris study, but I was undecided as to whether I should go to the Malay Peninsula for this, or whether I should continue with my visits to Jawa.

I investigated the keris situation in the area of Malaysia that was comprised of Old Malaya, and what I discovered was that a combination of the British presence, very aggressive Islam, and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil.

I decided that it would simply be too hard to try to learn anything at all about the keris in Malaysia, so I concentrated my attention on Jawa and to a slightly lesser extent on Bali. In retrospect it was very fortunate that I did so.

During the 1970's keris culture in Jawa got a shot in the arm, when the efforts of several people:- Deitrich Drescher, Garrett & Bronwen Solyom, Panembahan Harjonegoro ( he was not a Panembahan at that time) Djeno Harumbrojo and his brothers, Empu Suparman Supowijoyo, Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo, saw a revival in keris culture in Jawa.

This revival was accelerated by economic and societal conditions in Jawa, right up until the present time. The Javanese keris culture has now returned to a vibrant part of the overall societal structure.

In Bali the revival was not so aggressive, and probably did not start to really move until about 20 years ago.

However, in Malaysia it is very difficult to identify exactly when there was a revival of interest in the keris, and just what the extent of this is, even today. Yes, there is an awareness, but the impression I gain from the people I correspond with in Malaysia is that the keris movement there is still feeling its way, and that if there ever was a deep cultural knowledge of keris in the past, this has pretty much been lost because of the social conditions I referred to earlier.

It has even been said to me by more than one person living in Malaysia that the keris culture in present day Malaysia has very little to do with keris and more to do with social climbing. It has also been remarked that people raise their own societal position by pretending to have "secret knowledge" when in fact they themselves are inventing this knowledge.

There can be not the smallest doubt that the core of keris culture is to be found in Jawa, and since Jawa is where the keris originated, and where the culture has never died, this is as it should be. However, although I do focus my attention on Jawa, I would be more than willing to gather information from some other areas if I were to be convinced that the information I was able to gather was genuine, old, grassroots information.

Regrettably my efforts to gather information of this quality have invariably failed and investigation has indicated that the information I have gathered from, amongst other places, Malaysia, has almost invariably been of quite recent origin.

This is one of the reasons for my disinterest in keris from outside the Heartland of Keris Culture :- Jawa/Bali.

Personally I look askance at any information in relation to keris that has originated in present-day Malaysia. Possibly some things might be accurate, but then how can that be verified? If some things are modern inventions how many of these modern inventions are there? How do we differentiate between the true and the false?

Perhaps 30 or 40 years of continuing investigation, using the audit approach might be able to give us some answers, but at the present time there are too many unanswered questions for any certainty to be attached to any information coming out of Malaysia.

A.G. Maisey,

Your passion for research is truly admirable. I am inspired to study the Moro kris in the same manner as you've studied the Jawa/Bali keris. I doubt however if I will have the same opportunities as you've had. I will nonetheless try my best. Hopefully, one day I can publish a book on the Moro kris.

Your knowledge is very impressive. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the keris Melayu!

F. de Luzon
F. de Luzon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2017, 04:25 PM   #3
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,220
Default

Just curious...does no one care to comment on my observation that according to Spirit of Wood "anak ayam teleng" and "pipit teleng" are two completely different hilt forms, with "pipit teleng" being the form present on the keris in question.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2017, 11:02 PM   #4
Laowang
Member
 
Laowang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 40˚00' N, 83˚00' W
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Just curious...does no one care to comment on my observation that according to Spirit of Wood "anak ayam teleng" and "pipit teleng" are two completely different hilt forms, with "pipit teleng" being the form present on the keris in question.
David, I agree that the photos and accompanying captions in Spirit of Wood appear to contradict what Kai & I have written in previous posts. I admit I have no particular knowledge of peninsular Malaysian hulu names other than what I have read in posts from Kai Wee and Alam Shah, and from Adni on his website, which formed the basis of my own comments. I would love to hear from either Kai Wee or Alam Shah, but they haven't posted much as of recent.

It does make me reflect a little on the importance of the name. One could argue that it's important to know the correct name, in order to classify the keris, and understand what it is known as in its region of origin. One might also acknowledge, as Alan has suggested, that knowledge, names, and terms have changed over time, due to evolution within and/or disruption to the original culture. Perhaps there simply isn't consensus within the peninsular Malaysian community regarding the proper name for the forms given that loss of knowledge, or lack of continuity.

If the importance of the name is to define a set of commonly shared formal attributes, so that when one refers to a hulu pekaka everyone understands what that hilt looks like in the absence of a photograph, one could also resort to more generic terms. E.g. "jawa demam, northern Malay variant" for the pekaka, or "jawa demam, Terengganu variant" for the anak ayam teleng and/or pipit teleng form.

I'm not sure I personally see the need to have all questions answered with absolute certitude. For me, the beauty of a hulu pekaka or hulu tajong lies within the grace of the form, the power of the carving, and the resonance of the original cultural belief system that created the piece and imbued it with power. It's nice to know the correct name, but it's not essential.
Laowang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 12:30 AM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laowang
It's nice to know the correct name, but it's not essential.
Very well said!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 01:40 AM   #6
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,019
Default

Its not just a matter of "nice" to know the correct name, its a matter of extremely difficult to know the correct name.

Where keris are concerned, the names change all the time, depending on situation, period, geographic location, social group, and so on. In Central Jawa the name for something can change from one town to another, and those towns might only be 30 miles apart.

Sometimes one particular group of people can be led by the opinions of a single person, who is recognised within that group as the most senior within the hierarchy of the group, and he might decide that something should be named as something other than it is currently named. Often the reasons for that decision will be known only to the senior person.

But then we have the situation where it is essential to know a correct name, within a defined context, because interpretations associated with that name follow. I'm thinking here of dhapur in accord with a particular kraton's understandings.

This is the frustrating thing about the Name Game:- sometimes it is essential to be able to play it, and play it without defect, but on other occasions it is simply a waste of time.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 05:17 AM   #7
Laowang
Member
 
Laowang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 40˚00' N, 83˚00' W
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Its not just a matter of "nice" to know the correct name, its a matter of extremely difficult to know the correct name.

This is the frustrating thing about the Name Game:- sometimes it is essential to be able to play it, and play it without defect, but on other occasions it is simply a waste of time.
Alan, I am in complete agreement with your point of view, in this regard.
Laowang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 05:24 AM   #8
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,220
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
This is the frustrating thing about the Name Game:- sometimes it is essential to be able to play it, and play it without defect, but on other occasions it is simply a waste of time.
Laowang, if you have been following my method of posting on this thread and what i have been trying to bring to light you will understand that i do indeed share your opinion of the name game. i have brought these conflicts of opinions on correct names not to attempt to support one over the other, but rather to point out the futility of it on many levels. But ultimately what is important is that we can use words and understand what the other is describing. Unfortunately in the case of a word like "pekaka" we are now in a situation where some people still consider this a word for the tajong or "kingfisher" variety of hilt while other consider it a proper term for the peninsula version of Jawa Demam (Northern Jawa Demam). This does create some problems for communication showing the importance of the "sometimes it is essential" part of Alan's above statement.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 01:41 AM   #9
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
Default

Hello David,

Sorry for not noticing right away that we crossed posts. I'm a bit slow to respond these days, too...

Thanks for bringing this up: Indeed, in PoW pipit teleng and anak ayam teleng refer to different hilt types; I haven't seen this reflected by usage within the Malay keris community though and would love to have more input here!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laowang
I'm not sure I personally see the need to have all questions answered with absolute certitude. For me, the beauty of a hulu pekaka or hulu tajong lies within the grace of the form, the power of the carving, and the resonance of the original cultural belief system that created the piece and imbued it with power. It's nice to know the correct name, but it's not essential.
I agree that the name game is not really important except for convenience in communication. Thus, I've usually been trying to go with the flow and follow usage of the local communities. Sometimes new info can be brought to light if one tries to dig deeper and David and Alan bring up valid points, especially regarding seemingly inconsistent usage. I'll try to follow this up and get back with any updates.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2017, 02:39 AM   #10
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
Wink

Hello Alan,

I'm not questioning your general line of reasoning (and certainly not the choices you made). I hope you bear with me for the fun of it.


Quote:
I investigated the keris situation in the area of Malaysia that was comprised of Old Malaya, and what I discovered was that a combination of the British presence, very aggressive Islam, and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil.
Ignoring the different time points, would it be really be that much off to state the following for the current situation in Indonesia and most of Java?
"I investigated the keris situation in the area of Indonesia that was comprised of Netherland's East India, and what I discovered was that a combination of the Dutch [and Japanese] presence, very aggressive Islam (maybe let's call this increasing Wahabite influence), and a national character that was pushing to modernise had reduced the conscious presence of a keris culture to virtually nil."

Sure, there are some very knowlegeable people from the heart of Jawa still extant. But how much do they really relate to the keris culture(s) as seen/practised by (major sections of) the general public?


Quote:
It has even been said to me by more than one person living in Malaysia that the keris culture in present day Malaysia has very little to do with keris and more to do with social climbing. It has also been remarked that people raise their own societal position by pretending to have "secret knowledge" when in fact they themselves are inventing this knowledge.
Considering how the tangguh system got pretty much corrupted, etc. pp., not really unheard of on Java, too, isn't it? In an urban setting, is Kuala Lumpur so much different from, say, Jakarta these days? It's usually more the backwaters where traditions are kept alive in a post-colonial setting.

I'm not contesting that the conditions in Malaya have been more problematic for traditional knowledge to survive (no long-standing center of gravity for keris culture with many smaller sultanates; earlier loss of their importance; considerable proportion of the population of Tamil and Chinese descent; traditionally high mobility of the populations; increasing Thai influence in Pattani; and political turmoil in northern Malaysia).

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.