Bitten by the Keris Bug

David · 3rd January 2017, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Well, I would just like to say that the hilts shown in posts #17 & 18 look recent and poorly made specimens IMO.

Regards

I believe that the low quality of this particular hilt has already been remarked upon Jean. The question which raise this whole conversation however was not about the quality of the hilt, but rather whether it was a proper form for a Bugis keris of Terengganu origin. I believe we may have established that indeed it is.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd January 2017, 08:13 PM

Thank you very much for that clarification Green, you have confirmed one of my suspicions.

In respect of the correct spelling of the Malay word for the bird known as a "kingfisher" in English.

Wilkinson's dictionary of 1901 is the dictionary that is apparently regarded by linguists as the most authoritative dictionary of Classical Malay, it appears to have a similar status in respect of the Malay Language as does the Oxford Dictionary for English.

This dictionary lists both "pekaka" and "pekakak".

A number of hard-copy dictionaries also list both words, as do a number of online dictionaries.

All language changes in use and in spelling, this is particularly the case in English but it also applies in other languages.

I accept that at the present time, in the area of Malaysia where you live, the currently popular spelling for the word under discussion is "pekaka", which of course means that the pronunciation also differs from "pekakak", but this difference would be almost imperceptible.

However, at the time that Gardner was writing there can be no question that "pekakak" was a legitimate spelling, as also was "pekaka".

Bahasa Indonesia is founded upon Malay as it is spoken in a part of Sumatra. The reason that this particular form of Malay was chosen as the foundation stone for the national language is that this form of Malay was the form that was most generally in use as the lingua franca of trade in Maritime South East Asia. In this form of the Malay Language the word "pekaka" is unknown, the spelling "pekakak" is the spelling used.

3rd January 2017, 08:13 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Thank you very much for that clarification Green, you have confirmed one of my suspicions. In respect of the correct spelling of the Malay word for the bird known as a "kingfisher" in English. Wilkinson's dictionary of 1901 is the dictionary that is apparently regarded by linguists as the most authoritative dictionary of Classical Malay, it appears to have a similar status in respect of the Malay Language as does the Oxford Dictionary for English. This dictionary lists both "pekaka" and "pekakak". A number of hard-copy dictionaries also list both words, as do a number of online dictionaries. All language changes in use and in spelling, this is particularly the case in English but it also applies in other languages. I accept that at the present time, in the area of Malaysia where you live, the currently popular spelling for the word under discussion is "pekaka", which of course means that the pronunciation also differs from "pekakak", but this difference would be almost imperceptible. However, at the time that Gardner was writing there can be no question that "pekakak" was a legitimate spelling, as also was "pekaka". Bahasa Indonesia is founded upon Malay as it is spoken in a part of Sumatra. The reason that this particular form of Malay was chosen as the foundation stone for the national language is that this form of Malay was the form that was most generally in use as the lingua franca of trade in Maritime South East Asia. In this form of the Malay Language the word "pekaka" is unknown, the spelling "pekakak" is the spelling used.