"Armour Piercing Keris" ???

[kai]

Hello Kulino,

The tombak now showing has seperate metuk with the same kinatah.
(Maybe less intricate)

The center motif seems to correspond, indeed. I'd agree that the iras metuk looks nicer than the separate one in these 2 examples (even when ignoring the kinatah).

Without wanting to hijack Paul's thread - great to see some tombak here for a change!

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Without wanting to hijack Paul's thread - great to see some tombak here for a change!

Well, i was letting this slide, but if we are going to continue to discuss tombak we really do need to take it to the Ethno Forum. It was decided at the very start of this keris gallery that this forum would be for the discussion to keris only and all other tosan aji would be discussed on the Ethno Forum. Thanks...

[Kulino]

Sorry David, you're right.
I'll post it on the Etno forum. Can I cut and paste or what's the way to do this most effectively?

[Gustav]

Tombak or Keris?

Thank you, Kulino, for posting these.

[Battara]

This Bugis looking keris seems to me to have a newer blade.

[Gustav]

The question is, what means "newer" in the context.

If about 100 years of age is new for you, then it certainly isn't new. I would say, quite a lot older than new.

The Gonjo of course is newer then blade, but surely also antique.

[David]

Well, that's a good question Gustav. I would certainly say that it is being currently presented as a keris sepang, though it may well have started life as a tombak. I must say that i find it intriguing and handsome.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

This Bugis looking keris seems to me to have a newer blade.

It look Malay to my eyes, Terengganu!?

[Gustav]

Thank you David. Alan, thank you very much for your remarks!

Detlef, it could very well be the case. On this I am not sure myself, because it is so off-standard. This Sampir form we encounter also in Johor-Riau and Riau Lingga, and perhaps I favorite these possibilities more.

[GIO]

[QUOTE=Gustav]Tombak or Keris?

Tombak IMHO

[A. G. Maisey]

This is a very scarce item, seldom seen, and I have never previously seen a Bugis style one.

My guess is a family pusaka mounted as a keris.

It is a Tomris, Dhapur Ngapes.

Edit: --- In response to a private query I thought I'd better add this:-

"Tomris" is the Ngoko term, Krama is "Dhuwaos", and when worn in the wangkingan fashion it is referred to as a "Wangwaosan".

It should be noted that the alternate spelling of "Tomris" is "Tumris"

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...and when worn in the wangkingan fashion it is referred to as a "Wangwaosan".

Alan, would you mind expanding upon what you mean by "worn in the wangkingan fashion". Thanks!

[kai]

Hello Alan,

Ok, I'll bite...

It is a Tomris, Dhapur Ngapes.

To me this word looks like a marriage of tombak and keris. Possibly something you made up to please the name chasers? On the other hand, nobody asked for a name for this rare beast AFAIK.

I'm completely lost on the intended dhapur connotation though...

"Tomris" is the Ngoko term, Krama is "Dhuwaos", and when worn in the wangkingan fashion it is referred to as a "Wangwaosan".

D(h)uwung + wa(h)os, and Wangkingan + wa(h)osan, I guess?

I haven't been able to come up with an explanation for changing wa(h)os into wa(h)osan though. BTW, are dagger-hilted (pusaka) tombak ever worn in the wangkingan fashion to really need a "formal" word - I believed this was a modern fad for easier storage only?

It should be noted that the alternate spelling of "Tomris" is "Tumris"

Pretty much flogging a dead horse here, just to please the standard transliteration, as well as Bahasa Indonesia and Malay folks, I assume?

Regards,
Kai