Zanzibari (?) Saif for Comment

Jim McDougall · 22nd December 2016, 12:21 AM

Thanks Richard. Actually my first encounter with these loop guard types was in the 90s and I was informed the one I bought had come from an old arsenal in Yemen and was one of around 40 there. These were said to have come from Zanzibar. Given the trade routes and supply from there to Red Sea ports, and along the Arabian entrepots that seemed quite plausible.

TVV · 22nd December 2016, 03:13 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments, some very good observations and questions.

I believe the hilt, as far as the horn part is concerned, is as old as the blade. Are the brass fittings newer? It is possible, but hard for me to tell for sure. I am attaching two pictures of a sword with a similar hilt, which I believe was sold in one of Auctions Imperial past auctions. I hope Oliver would not mind me using those images for comparison purposes here. The guard is very similar, down to the X pattern on the knuckle bow.

Richard could be on to something as well. The brass fittings do have a certain SE Asian feel to them. Besides, when it comes to the blade, the closest one I have in my collection is on a piso podang, from the other end of the Indian Ocean, but certainly within the trade network of Arab and Swahili traders from the coasts of East Africa.

Regards,
Teodor

Jim McDougall · 22nd December 2016, 06:22 PM

SE Asia was very much an extension of the trade networks being discussed from East Africa and Red Sea to India.....and from there eastward. Trade was of course not from one location to another in extreme distances, but interaction in ports of call and entrepots throughout these networks. It is well known that trade blades commonly seen in Africa, Arabia and India are found in SE Asia just as shown in the piso podang. I have seen these with the same 'Assad Adullah' Persian trade blades seen in Bedouin sabres.

The diffusion of all aspects of cultures and nations diffused constantly through these routes, which presents the ever present conundrums we face in trying to classify many weapon forms.

The excellent example of the sa'if form we term 'nimcha' shown by Stu seems to me the 'classic' form we regard as Zanzibari but as discussed certainly of far broader scope in actual use. The iron guard and beautifully fluted grips are features indicating earlier example with solid character of such weapons genuinely in use and worn accordingly.

These examples being discussed in the original post with good old blades, but refurbished with thin, rudimentary mounts in easily worked brass, and with scribed in motif recalling other symbols and marks are clearly more modern creations.

In the curious motif being noted, the X and lines, these may well be aesthetically adopted devices which appealed to the fabricators who furbished these weapons. In the case of the example shown in comparison by Teodor, interestingly the same close in downturned quillons are seen, and the noted 'X' motif present on the thin brass mounts.
While not suggesting a connection, I would note that these X's with dots inside each segment were also a cypher with Masonic associations (known as the 'pigpen' cypher) used in numeric codes along with others.

kahnjar1 · 22nd December 2016, 07:48 PM

The second lot of pics posted by Teodor also IMHO show a later addition of a guard to an original hilt. Whilst the decoration on the knuckle guard and quillons is similar in both cases, the actual guard itself would, in my opinion not be much use in protecting the users hand due to the thin metal used.
Though obviously not the "original" guard, none the less the maker has spent some time to nicely decorate his work.
Maybe we could term this a "tribal" sword. I have a number of these which show grades of making, ranging from quite good to really rough.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 22nd December 2016, 08:46 PM

I think 'tribal' as good a term as any. In more recent times it seems swords were put together from old components for no better reason than the notion of military fashioned groups wearing them in a traditional sense.
The swords from Yemen were simply ersatz weapons for such wear during the many insurgencies there in the civil wars etc. Rank and file did not always have firearms so any weapon would do.

Also, in a 'parade' context, a large showing of 'forces' wearing swords in ceremonial or other elaborate events would be most impressive. However, these weapons despite using sound old blades, were not serviceable as far as combat weapons.
Think of a contingent of mounted forces in some colonial region riding in review and all wearing swords which look good, but close inspection not so much.

Ethnographic weapons likely have a good many weapons of traditional forms put together in more recent times in these kinds of capacities.

TVV · 23rd December 2016, 08:04 AM

We really know very little about these swords. For other arms and armor, we have period artwork, provenance examples in collections, archeological finds, fencing manuals and of course, multiple articles and books on the subject. Not the case when it comes to these swords from Eastern Africa.

Elgood does not illustrate them, as his book does not expand to the Arab colonies along Eastern Africa. Spring does not even mention the weapons of Zanzibar and the other Arab trading posts, as his book is focused on pure African forms only and not on any he considers to be introduced from outside. Hales has some very nice examples and an interesting picture from the Comoros, where this hilt style was also popular well into the 19th century. And of course, we have Buttin's plates. There are occasional museum exhibit catalogues where a few of these swords are shown and invariably ascribed to the Maghreb in error.

I believe the hilt form evolved over the years. To me, Stu's sword looks like it belongs to a much older style from the 18th century or even earlier, when contact with the Portuguese influenced the complex guard shape with its D-ring. As we can see on the ivory hilted status symbol examples, the D-ring is gone, replaced by 3 quillons. It is possible that at some point during the 19th century, some less elaborate, more munitions grade examples had simplified guards.

As for the sword hand protection issue, I am not sure it was as important to the wearers of these swords during the 19th century as we are making it out to be. We know that with the ascent of Oman in the region, the other popular sword style was that of what we refer to as kattara, as can be seen on pictures of Tippu Tip and other prominent people from the Swahili coast in the late19th century. Of course, the kattara has no guard whatsoever. I guess the locals felt that blocking with a buckler was sufficient, or hand protection for the sword hand may not have been deemed crucial in an era where firearms were taking over as the primary weapon.

I guess, all we can do at this point is simply keep collecting photos and keep collecting examples of various quality and style until we start putting the puzzle together little by little. Of course, all of this is skewed by the prevalence of higher end examples: munitions grade items were far more likely to be discarded once functionally obsolete as there was very little incentive to keep them. The same applies to photos as most of the ones we have are staged portraits of notables and their families.

It is not easy, but learning is part of the fun.

Jim McDougall · 23rd December 2016, 01:57 PM

Teodor,
Wonderfully thought out and well written synopsis on these sword conundrums!! You have hit perfectly on the dilemmas of trying to adequately study and classify these examples, and I completely agree in the hopes that we can keep the discussion going here.

As you well put it, not easy, but a lot of fun learning here together

Thank you,
Jim

22nd December 2016, 03:13 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,727	Gentlemen, Thank you for your comments, some very good observations and questions. I believe the hilt, as far as the horn part is concerned, is as old as the blade. Are the brass fittings newer? It is possible, but hard for me to tell for sure. I am attaching two pictures of a sword with a similar hilt, which I believe was sold in one of Auctions Imperial past auctions. I hope Oliver would not mind me using those images for comparison purposes here. The guard is very similar, down to the X pattern on the knuckle bow. Richard could be on to something as well. The brass fittings do have a certain SE Asian feel to them. Besides, when it comes to the blade, the closest one I have in my collection is on a piso podang, from the other end of the Indian Ocean, but certainly within the trade network of Arab and Swahili traders from the coasts of East Africa. Regards, Teodor Attached Images

22nd December 2016, 12:21 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Thanks Richard. Actually my first encounter with these loop guard types was in the 90s and I was informed the one I bought had come from an old arsenal in Yemen and was one of around 40 there. These were said to have come from Zanzibar. Given the trade routes and supply from there to Red Sea ports, and along the Arabian entrepots that seemed quite plausible.

22nd December 2016, 06:22 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	SE Asia was very much an extension of the trade networks being discussed from East Africa and Red Sea to India.....and from there eastward. Trade was of course not from one location to another in extreme distances, but interaction in ports of call and entrepots throughout these networks. It is well known that trade blades commonly seen in Africa, Arabia and India are found in SE Asia just as shown in the piso podang. I have seen these with the same 'Assad Adullah' Persian trade blades seen in Bedouin sabres. The diffusion of all aspects of cultures and nations diffused constantly through these routes, which presents the ever present conundrums we face in trying to classify many weapon forms. The excellent example of the sa'if form we term 'nimcha' shown by Stu seems to me the 'classic' form we regard as Zanzibari but as discussed certainly of far broader scope in actual use. The iron guard and beautifully fluted grips are features indicating earlier example with solid character of such weapons genuinely in use and worn accordingly. These examples being discussed in the original post with good old blades, but refurbished with thin, rudimentary mounts in easily worked brass, and with scribed in motif recalling other symbols and marks are clearly more modern creations. In the curious motif being noted, the X and lines, these may well be aesthetically adopted devices which appealed to the fabricators who furbished these weapons. In the case of the example shown in comparison by Teodor, interestingly the same close in downturned quillons are seen, and the noted 'X' motif present on the thin brass mounts. While not suggesting a connection, I would note that these X's with dots inside each segment were also a cypher with Masonic associations (known as the 'pigpen' cypher) used in numeric codes along with others.

22nd December 2016, 07:48 PM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,813	The second lot of pics posted by Teodor also IMHO show a later addition of a guard to an original hilt. Whilst the decoration on the knuckle guard and quillons is similar in both cases, the actual guard itself would, in my opinion not be much use in protecting the users hand due to the thin metal used. Though obviously not the "original" guard, none the less the maker has spent some time to nicely decorate his work. Maybe we could term this a "tribal" sword. I have a number of these which show grades of making, ranging from quite good to really rough. Stu

22nd December 2016, 08:46 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	I think 'tribal' as good a term as any. In more recent times it seems swords were put together from old components for no better reason than the notion of military fashioned groups wearing them in a traditional sense. The swords from Yemen were simply ersatz weapons for such wear during the many insurgencies there in the civil wars etc. Rank and file did not always have firearms so any weapon would do. Also, in a 'parade' context, a large showing of 'forces' wearing swords in ceremonial or other elaborate events would be most impressive. However, these weapons despite using sound old blades, were not serviceable as far as combat weapons. Think of a contingent of mounted forces in some colonial region riding in review and all wearing swords which look good, but close inspection not so much. Ethnographic weapons likely have a good many weapons of traditional forms put together in more recent times in these kinds of capacities.

23rd December 2016, 08:04 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,727	We really know very little about these swords. For other arms and armor, we have period artwork, provenance examples in collections, archeological finds, fencing manuals and of course, multiple articles and books on the subject. Not the case when it comes to these swords from Eastern Africa. Elgood does not illustrate them, as his book does not expand to the Arab colonies along Eastern Africa. Spring does not even mention the weapons of Zanzibar and the other Arab trading posts, as his book is focused on pure African forms only and not on any he considers to be introduced from outside. Hales has some very nice examples and an interesting picture from the Comoros, where this hilt style was also popular well into the 19th century. And of course, we have Buttin's plates. There are occasional museum exhibit catalogues where a few of these swords are shown and invariably ascribed to the Maghreb in error. I believe the hilt form evolved over the years. To me, Stu's sword looks like it belongs to a much older style from the 18th century or even earlier, when contact with the Portuguese influenced the complex guard shape with its D-ring. As we can see on the ivory hilted status symbol examples, the D-ring is gone, replaced by 3 quillons. It is possible that at some point during the 19th century, some less elaborate, more munitions grade examples had simplified guards. As for the sword hand protection issue, I am not sure it was as important to the wearers of these swords during the 19th century as we are making it out to be. We know that with the ascent of Oman in the region, the other popular sword style was that of what we refer to as kattara, as can be seen on pictures of Tippu Tip and other prominent people from the Swahili coast in the late19th century. Of course, the kattara has no guard whatsoever. I guess the locals felt that blocking with a buckler was sufficient, or hand protection for the sword hand may not have been deemed crucial in an era where firearms were taking over as the primary weapon. I guess, all we can do at this point is simply keep collecting photos and keep collecting examples of various quality and style until we start putting the puzzle together little by little. Of course, all of this is skewed by the prevalence of higher end examples: munitions grade items were far more likely to be discarded once functionally obsolete as there was very little incentive to keep them. The same applies to photos as most of the ones we have are staged portraits of notables and their families. It is not easy, but learning is part of the fun.

23rd December 2016, 01:57 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Teodor, Wonderfully thought out and well written synopsis on these sword conundrums!! You have hit perfectly on the dilemmas of trying to adequately study and classify these examples, and I completely agree in the hopes that we can keep the discussion going here. As you well put it, not easy, but a lot of fun learning here together Thank you, Jim