"Armour Piercing Keris" ???

A. G. Maisey · 19th December 2016, 10:43 PM

Timo, you may be talking about reality, but your reality has very little relevance to the reality of Javanese culture and society, and it is this reality that I have been trying to convey to the people who are following this thread.

Personally I have no interest at all in whether a Brojoguno keris could actually pierce a Dutch breastplate, however, this ability to pierce a Dutch breastplate is not something that evolved as a belief, it is recorded in the court literature of the time.

My approach to this matter is purely cultural, and as such I accept that those Javanese people who are a part of Javanese keris culture believe that a Brojoguno keris could pierce a Dutch breastplate. This belief is based upon court literature.

This cultural approach is perhaps where the study of the Javanese keris varies from the study of other weaponry:- to understand the keris it is necessary to be able to understand at least some part of the Javanese mindset, and this mindset in many respects has very little relevance to logic and reality.

Yes, I agree, your question is an interesting one to ask, from the point of view of a person who studies general weaponry, but from the perspective of a person who studies the Javanese keris, it is perhaps close to irrelevant.

A. G. Maisey · 19th December 2016, 10:44 PM

Kulino, how many edges does this tombak have, 3, or 4?

satsujinken · 20th December 2016, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Kulino, how many edges does this tombak have, 3, or 4?

3 I think

Donny

Kulino · 20th December 2016, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Kulino, how many edges does this tombak have, 3, or 4?

It is diamond shaped.

A. G. Maisey · 20th December 2016, 10:47 AM

I think it is probably valid to call this a sajen ampel, but it is much finer than any I have handled.

Kulino · 20th December 2016, 11:26 AM

Any idea about age?
What does the kinatah tell? As far as I can tell it is a kind of lotus. Nothing like an anggrek.

A. G. Maisey · 20th December 2016, 07:02 PM

Please let me have a good, clear close-up of the base of the blade, taken at 90 degrees.

I may or may not be able to give an opinion.

Kulino · 20th December 2016, 07:38 PM

thank you for your trouble

20th December 2016, 07:38 PM	#8
Kulino Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 84	thank you for your trouble Attached Images

19th December 2016, 10:43 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Timo, you may be talking about reality, but your reality has very little relevance to the reality of Javanese culture and society, and it is this reality that I have been trying to convey to the people who are following this thread. Personally I have no interest at all in whether a Brojoguno keris could actually pierce a Dutch breastplate, however, this ability to pierce a Dutch breastplate is not something that evolved as a belief, it is recorded in the court literature of the time. My approach to this matter is purely cultural, and as such I accept that those Javanese people who are a part of Javanese keris culture believe that a Brojoguno keris could pierce a Dutch breastplate. This belief is based upon court literature. This cultural approach is perhaps where the study of the Javanese keris varies from the study of other weaponry:- to understand the keris it is necessary to be able to understand at least some part of the Javanese mindset, and this mindset in many respects has very little relevance to logic and reality. Yes, I agree, your question is an interesting one to ask, from the point of view of a person who studies general weaponry, but from the perspective of a person who studies the Javanese keris, it is perhaps close to irrelevant.

19th December 2016, 10:44 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Kulino, how many edges does this tombak have, 3, or 4?

20th December 2016, 10:47 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	I think it is probably valid to call this a sajen ampel, but it is much finer than any I have handled.

20th December 2016, 11:26 AM	#6
Kulino Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 84	Any idea about age? What does the kinatah tell? As far as I can tell it is a kind of lotus. Nothing like an anggrek.

20th December 2016, 07:02 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Please let me have a good, clear close-up of the base of the blade, taken at 90 degrees. I may or may not be able to give an opinion.