shamshir w. scabbard restoration/conservation advice

[Roland_M]

Hello Gernot,

a few months ago I gave you an addresse in East-Germany or at least I think so.

He is the right choice for your scabbard. He restored a Tulwar-Scabbard with ~30% missing leather for me and the result ist outstanding.


Roland

[GePi]

Thanks for the suggestions Marius and Detlef, I'll give those a try.

Hello Roland,
Steffen actually still has the other shamshir at his workshop. I wanted to call him anyway to ask him if he has gotten around to starting the repair of the hilt. And I have not forgotten your offer, if it still stands.

Actually I'm not yet really sure if I want this scabbard restored, I think in this case conservation would be enough for me.

Another question, how can you differentiate different hilt materials, i.e. ivory, walrus ivory or bone. Are there any reliable defining features, and can it be done from pictures alone?

Regards,

Gernot

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by GePi

Another question, how can you differentiate different hilt materials, i.e. ivory, walrus ivory or bone. Are there any reliable defining features, and can it be done from pictures alone?

Hello Gernot,

for the first question have a look to old threads. Second question: Many times yes, but not always.
Can you show the other side also?

Regards,
Detlef

[mariusgmioc]

Regarding the diferentiation between Ivory, bone and other similar materials

I fully agree with what Detlef said but I would like to go into further detail. There are several details that allow a knowledgeable eye to diferentiate between these materials, but most of them are minute details that in most cases are not visible in a photo.

For example elephant, and to a lesser degree mammouth ivory display a very fine criss-cross texture called Schreger Lines that is visible only under certain lighting conditions and only for finely polished surfaces (so very dificult to capture in photos). However, this texture is not present in the other types of ivory (walrus, hippopotamus, marine, etc.).

Walrus ivory on the other hand, tends to display a characteristic marbled/checkered texture. This texture however, is displayed only in parts, so there can be whole parts without any single sign of this characteristic.

Hippopotamus ivory doesn't display neither the Schreger Lines, nor the marble texture, but may display some diferently coloured veins lengthwise and concentric circles (like the rings of a tree) in cross-section.

Marine (whale tooth) ivory is similar to the walrus ivory but without the marbled texture. Some say that it can occasionaly display the marbled texture but I personally haven't seen this.

Then there are synthetic resins that immitate almost perfectly ivory and make visual distinction almost impossible (yet, sinthetic resins do not immitate the Schreger lines).

Bone on the other hand, displays a significantly coarser texture than any type of ivory, having fine fibres and spots visible with naked eye or moderate magnification.

While in theory it may sound quite easy to identify ivory, in practice it can be very dificult even for most experienced and discerning eyes, especially for older pieces (with strong yellow patination and cracks, like the scales of your Shamshir are).

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by GePi

Thanks for the suggestions Marius and Detlef, I'll give those a try.

Hello Roland,
Steffen actually still has the other shamshir at his workshop. I wanted to call him anyway to ask him if he has gotten around to starting the repair of the hilt. And I have not forgotten your offer, if it still stands.

Actually I'm not yet really sure if I want this scabbard restored, I think in this case conservation would be enough for me.

Another question, how can you differentiate different hilt materials, i.e. ivory, walrus ivory or bone. Are there any reliable defining features, and can it be done from pictures alone?

Regards,

Gernot

Hello Gernot,

I can tell you basic things about material identification, please send me a personal message and we can talk in our language. Judged from the pictures your hilt is made from elephant ivory.

I have not forgotten your saber. Me was just thinking, that my explanation about the sharpness of the edge was too stupid.

I can send pictures of my restored scabbard to you. I was also thinking a long time, whether restoring or not. Steffen restored my scabbard and I'm very satisfied with the result. Even under a magnifier one cannot see the difference between old and restored leather, he did an absolutely perfect job. He has very old leather which is ideal for the task.


Kind regards,
Roland

[mariusgmioc]

I like the scabbard in its current condition (which is reasonably good in my oppinion) and I would not have it restored, but keep it as it is.

But this is my personal prefference, of course.

[GePi]

Marius, I tend to agree in this case. The vast majority of the leather is still present and the missing pieces don't detract from the overall look too much in my opinion.

Roland, when I dropped off the other shamshir at Steffen's, we also talked about the possibility to build a new scabbard for it from scratch, so I will probably still benefit from his skills in that regard.

As requested by Detlef, I added another picture of the grip scales from the other side of the grip.

As for the pommel cap, has anybody had any experience in refixing something like this. Could dunking the cap in boiling water be enough to melt the resin?

Regards

Gernot

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by GePi

As requested by Detlef, I added another picture of the grip scales from the other side of the grip.

Hello Gernot,

agree with Roland, the material look indeed like elephant ivory.

Regards,
Detlef

[Richard G]

Just goes to show! because I would have said this was marine\walrus ivory.
Regards
Richard