A Balinese Keris (?) for discussion

Paul de Souza · 6th December 2016, 01:07 PM

Oh. It looks like a keris topengan (mask pendok) from East Java but without the topengan.

Sajen · 6th December 2016, 05:28 PM

Hello Paul,

I think that Alan speak about the blade alone!

Also when the sarung show age and handling is the blade much older IMVHO.
And I think in a maybe similar direction like Alan.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 6th December 2016, 05:41 PM

Paul's pictures.

A. G. Maisey · 6th December 2016, 07:35 PM

Firstly, the keris.

The wilah is an old Javanese one that has been given a Bali style polish. It can be classified as Tangguh Segaluh, which is one of the very few tangguh classifications that I am prepared to endorse from a photograph. Its about the easiest of any.

The hilt and scabbard are 20th century. Based upon similar examples of known age that I have seen and owned, I am of the opinion that the hilt and scabbard date from either the period 1950 to 1980, or from the 1930's. My best bet would be 1960-1975.

As I remarked earlier, an old Javanese blade presented in Balinese dress is not at all unusual, in fact a great number of Balinese pusaka keris are keris (wilah) that have been made in Jawa.

Secondly the way in which a Balinese keris is worn.

We have all seen the old posed photos taken by colonial era photographers of Balinese princes and other nobles wearing sarungs that cover the chest, and with a great big keris stuck into the back of the sarung, its hilt projecting well above the shoulder.

This style of dress is formal dress, it is not everyday dress.

Everyday attire prior to the modern era was a short, knee length sarung for men, and a sarung for women that came just below the knees. Neither sex wore anything above the waist, and when working, the back of the sarung was drawn between the legs and tucked into the waist fold of the sarung at the front; sometimes a heavy belt or an additional sash was worn around the waist to keep everything nicely anchored. Sandals or shoes were not normally worn. Underclothes were not worn.

In remote village areas of Bali this mode of dress is still used, and in the mid-1970's, as soon as you got out of a major town it was common to see people dressed in this traditional fashion.

This traditional style of dress, used by the common people of Bali is not conducive to the wearing of the super-size keris that is usually associated with Bali in the minds of modern collectors. The usual everyman's Balinese keris in the pre-colonial era was comparable with a Javanese keris.

There is something else that needs to be understood in respect of Balinese keris:- Bali is a very, very hierarchical society, if anything, even more so than is Jawa. Everything that a person does or wears reflects that person's status within the society. It is not acceptable for anybody to behave in a fashion that is incompatible with his status in society, and such behaviour can lead to exclusion from society until the offender mends his ways and begins to behave correctly again.

In Balinese society Big Keris = Big Man. Not in terms of physical size, but in terms of societal size. In other words even if the Raja is only 5'4" tall, he is very much bigger than a farmer who tops 6'. Thus, the Raja wears a big keris, the farmer wears a normal size keris.

As in Jawa and other keris bearing societies, there is more than one way in which to wear a keris, and the way in which it is worn signals the mood and intent of the wearer.

In Jawa one of the names for a keris is "wangkingan". This word comes from "wangking", which means a narrow waist; if something is worn at the small of the back, it is said to be "mangking", thus the keris when worn at the back (in a particular way) is called a "wangkingan".

This style of wear at the back signals a relaxed sociable attitude in the wearer, and is the appropriate way in which to wear a keris for a formal occasion.

The same thing applies in Bali:- how you wear your keris tells people what your mood and intent is:- worn at the back, you're off to have a good time; worn at the left side front and ready to draw, you don't argue, you get out of the way and do what the wearer wants you to do, because he is ready to draw that keris and use it.

The Melasti photo I posted is a photo of one of the culture police, given the responsibility for maintaining order by one of the banjars participating in the ceremony. The way in which he is wearing his keris is one of his badges of authority.

You do not argue with this man.

The correct name for a Balinese keris is "kadutan". This word comes from "kadut", which refers to the front of a belt, or sash, or girdle that goes around the waist.

The Balinese keris is called a kadutan because it is normally worn at the waist, in a peaceful situation it is worn at the back, in a situation where it might need to be used it is slipped around the waist to the position that our culture policeman is wearing it.

David · 6th December 2016, 08:26 PM

Thanks Alan. Great explanation and custom and word definitions.

Jean · 7th December 2016, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Firstly, the keris.

The Melasti photo I posted is a photo of one of the culture police, given the responsibility for maintaining order by one of the banjars participating in the ceremony. The way in which he is wearing his keris is one of his badges of authority.

Thank you Alan. BTW, this gentleman does not look Balinese at all?

Regards

Paul de Souza · 7th December 2016, 10:36 AM

Thank you Alan for this very insightful view.

A. G. Maisey · 7th December 2016, 11:13 AM

Jean, there is a very wide range of physical types in both Bali and Jawa. These places are just about at the end of what was not very long ago, the known world.

There is an old theory that everything moves slowly to the East, and that theory applies to not only things, but people as well.

Sajen · 7th December 2016, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Firstly, the keris.

The wilah is an old Javanese one that has been given a Bali style polish. It can be classified as Tangguh Segaluh, which is one of the very few tangguh classifications that I am prepared to endorse from a photograph. Its about the easiest of any.

The hilt and scabbard are 20th century. Based upon similar examples of known age that I have seen and owned, I am of the opinion that the hilt and scabbard date from either the period 1950 to 1980, or from the 1930's. My best bet would be 1960-1975.

As I remarked earlier, an old Javanese blade presented in Balinese dress is not at all unusual, in fact a great number of Balinese pusaka keris are keris (wilah) that have been made in Jawa.

This is exactly what I thought byself but frankly said first after Alan hit my nose on this with his remark: "Look at this keris. Forget that you think you know where it comes from.

What do you see?" !!

Paul you have a very old Javanese blade with a Balinese polish and newer dress. I personally would look for a nice uwer.

Regards,
Detlef

Jean · 7th December 2016, 12:23 PM

Hello Alan,
Would you definitely rule-out that this blade could be a very old Balinese blade? The smooth polishing does not seem recent and the blade size was probably significantly larger originally.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 7th December 2016, 07:44 PM

Absolutely yes.

There are many old Javanese blades in Bali dress, and in fact some old Balinese pusaka keris have Javanese blades.

Then of course we have the Balinese blades that were taken to Jawa in more recent times --- 1950's to 1970's --- and turned into Javanese blades. This was purely a matter of money:- average garap in a Bali keris is excellent garap in a Jawa keris, and in this period good Jawa keris were worth a lot more money than Bali keris.

There is one factor that is very often overlooked by people who do not try to think like people from times past :- until very recent times the areas of water that to our minds separate the islands of Indonesia, in times past were highways:- the water connected the islands, it was the forest without decent roads that separated settlements.

We sometimes refer to the "Jawa-Bali Nexus". They were joined at the hip. Javanese kings were of Balinese origin sometimes, Bali was ruled by Jawa. There are connections in language:- I cannot speak nor understand spoken Balinese, but I have been assured by native speakers of Javanese that they can understand/guess what is being said in Balinese, once they become used to the accent and delivery. I'm guessing that this might be a bit like me listening to somebody from North West England --- I cannot immediately understand him, but after a couple of hours listening to him I pick up the flow of the words and I can fill in the gaps.

Things don't always fit into neat, separate boxes, its more like they're in pools in water that merge into one another.

6th December 2016, 05:41 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,328	Paul's pictures. Attached Images

6th December 2016, 01:07 PM	#1
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	Oh. It looks like a keris topengan (mask pendok) from East Java but without the topengan.

6th December 2016, 05:28 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,328	Hello Paul, I think that Alan speak about the blade alone! Also when the sarung show age and handling is the blade much older IMVHO. And I think in a maybe similar direction like Alan. Regards, Detlef

6th December 2016, 07:35 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Firstly, the keris. The wilah is an old Javanese one that has been given a Bali style polish. It can be classified as Tangguh Segaluh, which is one of the very few tangguh classifications that I am prepared to endorse from a photograph. Its about the easiest of any. The hilt and scabbard are 20th century. Based upon similar examples of known age that I have seen and owned, I am of the opinion that the hilt and scabbard date from either the period 1950 to 1980, or from the 1930's. My best bet would be 1960-1975. As I remarked earlier, an old Javanese blade presented in Balinese dress is not at all unusual, in fact a great number of Balinese pusaka keris are keris (wilah) that have been made in Jawa. Secondly the way in which a Balinese keris is worn. We have all seen the old posed photos taken by colonial era photographers of Balinese princes and other nobles wearing sarungs that cover the chest, and with a great big keris stuck into the back of the sarung, its hilt projecting well above the shoulder. This style of dress is formal dress, it is not everyday dress. Everyday attire prior to the modern era was a short, knee length sarung for men, and a sarung for women that came just below the knees. Neither sex wore anything above the waist, and when working, the back of the sarung was drawn between the legs and tucked into the waist fold of the sarung at the front; sometimes a heavy belt or an additional sash was worn around the waist to keep everything nicely anchored. Sandals or shoes were not normally worn. Underclothes were not worn. In remote village areas of Bali this mode of dress is still used, and in the mid-1970's, as soon as you got out of a major town it was common to see people dressed in this traditional fashion. This traditional style of dress, used by the common people of Bali is not conducive to the wearing of the super-size keris that is usually associated with Bali in the minds of modern collectors. The usual everyman's Balinese keris in the pre-colonial era was comparable with a Javanese keris. There is something else that needs to be understood in respect of Balinese keris:- Bali is a very, very hierarchical society, if anything, even more so than is Jawa. Everything that a person does or wears reflects that person's status within the society. It is not acceptable for anybody to behave in a fashion that is incompatible with his status in society, and such behaviour can lead to exclusion from society until the offender mends his ways and begins to behave correctly again. In Balinese society Big Keris = Big Man. Not in terms of physical size, but in terms of societal size. In other words even if the Raja is only 5'4" tall, he is very much bigger than a farmer who tops 6'. Thus, the Raja wears a big keris, the farmer wears a normal size keris. As in Jawa and other keris bearing societies, there is more than one way in which to wear a keris, and the way in which it is worn signals the mood and intent of the wearer. In Jawa one of the names for a keris is "wangkingan". This word comes from "wangking", which means a narrow waist; if something is worn at the small of the back, it is said to be "mangking", thus the keris when worn at the back (in a particular way) is called a "wangkingan". This style of wear at the back signals a relaxed sociable attitude in the wearer, and is the appropriate way in which to wear a keris for a formal occasion. The same thing applies in Bali:- how you wear your keris tells people what your mood and intent is:- worn at the back, you're off to have a good time; worn at the left side front and ready to draw, you don't argue, you get out of the way and do what the wearer wants you to do, because he is ready to draw that keris and use it. The Melasti photo I posted is a photo of one of the culture police, given the responsibility for maintaining order by one of the banjars participating in the ceremony. The way in which he is wearing his keris is one of his badges of authority. You do not argue with this man. The correct name for a Balinese keris is "kadutan". This word comes from "kadut", which refers to the front of a belt, or sash, or girdle that goes around the waist. The Balinese keris is called a kadutan because it is normally worn at the waist, in a peaceful situation it is worn at the back, in a situation where it might need to be used it is slipped around the waist to the position that our culture policeman is wearing it.

6th December 2016, 08:26 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	Thanks Alan. Great explanation and custom and word definitions.

7th December 2016, 10:36 AM	#7
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	Thank you Alan for this very insightful view.

7th December 2016, 11:13 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Jean, there is a very wide range of physical types in both Bali and Jawa. These places are just about at the end of what was not very long ago, the known world. There is an old theory that everything moves slowly to the East, and that theory applies to not only things, but people as well.

7th December 2016, 12:23 PM	#10
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Would you definitely rule-out that this blade could be a very old Balinese blade? The smooth polishing does not seem recent and the blade size was probably significantly larger originally. Regards

7th December 2016, 07:44 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Absolutely yes. There are many old Javanese blades in Bali dress, and in fact some old Balinese pusaka keris have Javanese blades. Then of course we have the Balinese blades that were taken to Jawa in more recent times --- 1950's to 1970's --- and turned into Javanese blades. This was purely a matter of money:- average garap in a Bali keris is excellent garap in a Jawa keris, and in this period good Jawa keris were worth a lot more money than Bali keris. There is one factor that is very often overlooked by people who do not try to think like people from times past :- until very recent times the areas of water that to our minds separate the islands of Indonesia, in times past were highways:- the water connected the islands, it was the forest without decent roads that separated settlements. We sometimes refer to the "Jawa-Bali Nexus". They were joined at the hip. Javanese kings were of Balinese origin sometimes, Bali was ruled by Jawa. There are connections in language:- I cannot speak nor understand spoken Balinese, but I have been assured by native speakers of Javanese that they can understand/guess what is being said in Balinese, once they become used to the accent and delivery. I'm guessing that this might be a bit like me listening to somebody from North West England --- I cannot immediately understand him, but after a couple of hours listening to him I pick up the flow of the words and I can fill in the gaps. Things don't always fit into neat, separate boxes, its more like they're in pools in water that merge into one another.