"A Passion for Indian Arms" Book Review

Jim McDougall · 6th November 2016, 09:09 PM

Well noted Marius, technically the term 'firangi' is indicative of an other than Indian blade on one of these swords, actually known in Indian dialects as 'khanda' . To carry it further, these type hilts became known as 'Hindu basket hilts' post European contact and evolved presumably influenced by European style from the old and simpler hilt 'khanda'.

The term firangi does typically allude to a European blade, however, in its more broad use as 'foreign' can refer to any blade from foreign source outside India, including Persia, Middle East etc.

The firangi term has become a colloquialism for these swords among collectors in the broader sense as well, beyond these technicalities.

Sorry Jens, we crossed posts, just saw yours

and I had not thought of the decoration inclusion as well.

mariusgmioc · 7th November 2016, 09:57 AM

Thank you Jens and Jim for your explanations!

Well, in the absence of a more accurate term, I can see the logic behind the generalisation of the Firangi term for all swords, with foreign blade or not, displaying a certain shape and characteristics. Yes, maybe the sword can also be called a Khanda, but then the term "Khanda" has become associated with the broader blades with rounded or obtuse angled tip which are iconic for the Sikh... if I am correct.

As with regards of the more recent decoration, I noticed this on many Indian blades. This practice is continued even today and quite often one can find 17 or early 18 century wootz pieces with perfectly intact koftgari decoration, that was added much more recently to increase their appeal.

However, as long as the koftgari is of quality and well executed, I consider this to be a genuine enhancement to the blade since it is part of its cultural heritage and it was traditionally practiced in the past as it is practiced now.

Jens Nordlunde · 7th November 2016, 02:43 PM

Marius,
In most cases all of the old decoration has been removed, and a new decoration added. You will then have to judge how old the weapon is, and if the decoration is of the same age.
There are, however, cases where rests of the old decoration is still intact in small parts, and here it is easy to see that a new decoratin has been added - see catalogue pp. 77-78.

mariusgmioc · 8th November 2016, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Marius,
In most cases all of the old decoration has been removed, and a new decoration added. You will then have to judge how old the weapon is, and if the decoration is of the same age.
There are, however, cases where rests of the old decoration is still intact in small parts, and here it is easy to see that a new decoratin has been added - see catalogue pp. 77-78.

I also have a couple of pieces in this cathegory (with remade/latter addes koftgari). Hope to aquire a few more!

Jens Nordlunde · 8th November 2016, 09:41 PM

I wrote, 'in most cases...', and should have written, 'in many cases...' - sorry.

Maurius I do hope you will get many Indian weapons, buth with original decorations, and with newer ones. Let me also add, that I also hope that you will research them, to find out more about their age and their origin.
Researching can often be hard work, but when you find something, the sun starts shining.

Jim McDougall · 10th November 2016, 04:47 PM

Researching can often be hard work, but when you find something, the sun starts shining.[/QUOTE]

Spoken by a true master in researching!!! Very well said Jens

Oliver Pinchot · 15th November 2016, 01:52 AM

I congratulate Jens on a beautiful publication.
His use of a scientific methodology combined with an exceptional eye for this
esthetic results in a work we can all value... and truly learn from.

7th November 2016, 09:57 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Thank you Jens and Jim for your explanations! Well, in the absence of a more accurate term, I can see the logic behind the generalisation of the Firangi term for all swords, with foreign blade or not, displaying a certain shape and characteristics. Yes, maybe the sword can also be called a Khanda, but then the term "Khanda" has become associated with the broader blades with rounded or obtuse angled tip which are iconic for the Sikh... if I am correct. As with regards of the more recent decoration, I noticed this on many Indian blades. This practice is continued even today and quite often one can find 17 or early 18 century wootz pieces with perfectly intact koftgari decoration, that was added much more recently to increase their appeal. However, as long as the koftgari is of quality and well executed, I consider this to be a genuine enhancement to the blade since it is part of its cultural heritage and it was traditionally practiced in the past as it is practiced now. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 7th November 2016 at 10:13 AM.

6th November 2016, 09:09 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Well noted Marius, technically the term 'firangi' is indicative of an other than Indian blade on one of these swords, actually known in Indian dialects as 'khanda' . To carry it further, these type hilts became known as 'Hindu basket hilts' post European contact and evolved presumably influenced by European style from the old and simpler hilt 'khanda'. The term firangi does typically allude to a European blade, however, in its more broad use as 'foreign' can refer to any blade from foreign source outside India, including Persia, Middle East etc. The firangi term has become a colloquialism for these swords among collectors in the broader sense as well, beyond these technicalities. Sorry Jens, we crossed posts, just saw yours and I had not thought of the decoration inclusion as well.

7th November 2016, 02:43 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Marius, In most cases all of the old decoration has been removed, and a new decoration added. You will then have to judge how old the weapon is, and if the decoration is of the same age. There are, however, cases where rests of the old decoration is still intact in small parts, and here it is easy to see that a new decoratin has been added - see catalogue pp. 77-78.

8th November 2016, 09:41 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I wrote, 'in most cases...', and should have written, 'in many cases...' - sorry. Maurius I do hope you will get many Indian weapons, buth with original decorations, and with newer ones. Let me also add, that I also hope that you will research them, to find out more about their age and their origin. Researching can often be hard work, but when you find something, the sun starts shining.

10th November 2016, 04:47 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Researching can often be hard work, but when you find something, the sun starts shining.[/QUOTE] Spoken by a true master in researching!!! Very well said Jens

15th November 2016, 01:52 AM	#7
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 465	I congratulate Jens on a beautiful publication. His use of a scientific methodology combined with an exceptional eye for this esthetic results in a work we can all value... and truly learn from.