help with identity & origin

TVV · 21st February 2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

How can we even begin to gage the age of this example?

n2s

Good point. I find it hard to judge the quality of the workmanship from the pictures posted: they are a bit too dark to allow details to be seen. Yataghans that I have handled always exhibit a 5 mm hardened edge? Does this one have it?

Flavio · 21st February 2006, 05:07 PM

Hello, this is ended. What do you think about this?

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

TVV · 21st February 2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hello, this is ended. What do you think about this?

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Considering the patina on the brass band on the hilt, the scabbard appears to be a recent replacement. Another suspect thing is the six pointed star. I think there was a discussion on this symbol:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=star+david

I am sure the rest will add more comments, but to me this appears as an old yataghan with a recently (and poorly) embellished blade and a new scabbard, or maybe even only the hilt was genuinely old.

Valjhun · 21st February 2006, 09:14 PM

I have exactly the same opinion as thatone ( btw almost the same), or a lot of other similar pieces: Bosnia-Montenegro 19th century piece. I do not like the scabbard too, thou. That star maybe indicates that the owner was a jew, if that's the case it is more Bosnia than Montenegro.

erlikhan · 21st February 2006, 10:46 PM

The koftgari on the blade is original. David's star is original too and was always used by Ottomans and perhaps other Muslims of the period as a talisman.Was prefered by pirates and any kind of warriors for good fortune and wealth. The hilt is original with copper bands/corals (or coral imitating red glass beads??). The white metal scabbard is later but hard to decide if a simple period restoration or a modern one. The chiselling with the tulip drawing is pure Turkish according to me . Such simple decoration is often seen on not expensive antique samples as well. Nice. I wish the seller knew English or tried to market it internationally

mavi1970 · 22nd February 2006, 03:44 AM

i took a few more pictures of this sword, but again with my digital camera, its the best i can do. and the indentations of the "eye lashes" as they are called are deep 1 - 2.5 mm, including the 6 dots , 3 per side of the lashes.

eftihis · 22nd February 2006, 03:04 PM

Hallo friends,
I am posting photos of a Greek knife i have, which has etched the exact same symbols on blade. It is dated 1906, and have the name in Greek of the owner or manufacturer (Papadimitriou) Maybe this design is not exclusively Greek, but can be an indication that the blade is from Greece. Regarding the brass work i do not think is cast, it looks more than embossed to me, and also there is damage in the mouth of the scabbard, i do n ot think that somebody would damage a reproduction to be more persuasive.
The brass work reminds me Albanian Rat tail pistols as Ham says, but again we speak about an era and place that people, traders and craftsmen mooved arround, and also borders of ethnicities were not so much defined.

Regarding the Solomon star on the other yataghan, it is purely talismanic, for good luck, and this belief is not among muslims only. In an unpublishe book of Pavlos Vlastos, (a great Cretan folklorist -laograph we say), i read in the chapter about "spells and protective magic talisman of Crete" that this symbol is for "good luck" and another variation for "protect you against weapons"!!! Then it is obvious why it exists in so many yataghans, it is to protect you from the weapon of the oponent, and if you notice you will see that most times is in the external side of the blade, the one tat the opponent would face if you have the swordon your right hand.
Regards to all!

ariel · 25th February 2006, 03:49 PM

Going back to the origial Yataghan in this discussion thread: here is another one just like that.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Straight-Bl...QQcmdZViewItem

Any food for thought? Personally, I do not believe it is a modern replacement just something we do not know much about.....

Dom · 25th February 2006, 04:47 PM

you are right Ariel, old weapon, but that no embellishment may be posterior comes to disturb the identification

the stamping of the other blade is certainly recent, without relationship to its origin, and is creating us a trouble

à +

Dom

21st February 2006, 09:14 PM	#4
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	I have exactly the same opinion as thatone ( btw almost the same), or a lot of other similar pieces: Bosnia-Montenegro 19th century piece. I do not like the scabbard too, thou. That star maybe indicates that the owner was a jew, if that's the case it is more Bosnia than Montenegro. Attached Images Last edited by Valjhun; 21st February 2006 at 10:24 PM.

22nd February 2006, 03:44 AM	#6
mavi1970 Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada Posts: 90	i took a few more pictures of this sword, but again with my digital camera, its the best i can do. and the indentations of the "eye lashes" as they are called are deep 1 - 2.5 mm, including the 6 dots , 3 per side of the lashes. Attached Images

22nd February 2006, 03:04 PM	#7
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Maybe is Greek! Hallo friends, I am posting photos of a Greek knife i have, which has etched the exact same symbols on blade. It is dated 1906, and have the name in Greek of the owner or manufacturer (Papadimitriou) Maybe this design is not exclusively Greek, but can be an indication that the blade is from Greece. Regarding the brass work i do not think is cast, it looks more than embossed to me, and also there is damage in the mouth of the scabbard, i do n ot think that somebody would damage a reproduction to be more persuasive. The brass work reminds me Albanian Rat tail pistols as Ham says, but again we speak about an era and place that people, traders and craftsmen mooved arround, and also borders of ethnicities were not so much defined. Regarding the Solomon star on the other yataghan, it is purely talismanic, for good luck, and this belief is not among muslims only. In an unpublishe book of Pavlos Vlastos, (a great Cretan folklorist -laograph we say), i read in the chapter about "spells and protective magic talisman of Crete" that this symbol is for "good luck" and another variation for "protect you against weapons"!!! Then it is obvious why it exists in so many yataghans, it is to protect you from the weapon of the oponent, and if you notice you will see that most times is in the external side of the blade, the one tat the opponent would face if you have the swordon your right hand. Regards to all! Attached Images

21st February 2006, 05:07 PM	#2
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello, this is ended. What do you think about this? http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

21st February 2006, 10:46 PM	#5
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	The koftgari on the blade is original. David's star is original too and was always used by Ottomans and perhaps other Muslims of the period as a talisman.Was prefered by pirates and any kind of warriors for good fortune and wealth. The hilt is original with copper bands/corals (or coral imitating red glass beads??). The white metal scabbard is later but hard to decide if a simple period restoration or a modern one. The chiselling with the tulip drawing is pure Turkish according to me . Such simple decoration is often seen on not expensive antique samples as well. Nice. I wish the seller knew English or tried to market it internationally

25th February 2006, 03:49 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Going back to the origial Yataghan in this discussion thread: here is another one just like that. http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Straight-Bl...QQcmdZViewItem Any food for thought? Personally, I do not believe it is a modern replacement just something we do not know much about.....

25th February 2006, 04:47 PM	#9
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	you are right Ariel, old weapon, but that no embellishment may be posterior comes to disturb the identification the stamping of the other blade is certainly recent, without relationship to its origin, and is creating us a trouble à + Dom