My Java keris

Johan van Zyl · 7th October 2016, 01:42 PM

David, Jean & Mr Maisey, I am loath to ask more questions and put you to further trouble, but I cannot help myself. Your kind comments only serve to whet my interest further in regard to this awesome keris. (I have taken serious note of your advice so far and am amplifying my "Java Keris Book of Facts" as I go along.) May there be some more Q & A's before you lose patience with me!
Noting what was said above about the inverted metal oversheath: When I received this keris and sheath, the wrangka was separated from the bunton-type gandar/pendok unit. I could not get confirmation from the owner that the warangka and pendok/gandar actually belonged to one another. He simply did not know, but he said he got it in that condition. I gently tried to fit the warangka to the rest of the sheath first the one way around, then the other. The way it is now, glued together by me, is the way it fitted best. I admit I let myself be led by this fit. The other way around was very ill-fitting. Now this might spell out that the two components do not belong to one another - the inverted fit being better merely by coincidence.
In addition, the brass oversheath has floral/leafy designs on the one side, and looking at the indentations carefully, I think they were stamped in with punches and hammer, not incised/carved. If the quality of the oversheath is inferior to the quality of the wrangka, it might suggest the two do not match. Depending on your comments, I might have to detach and re-attach the wrangka other way round?
Lastly, I am wondering about the pendok variation I have. It cannot be cukitan, because the design is not pierced, nor is it carved (krawangan). Is it a known variation when the decoration is by punch?
Johan

Johan van Zyl · 7th October 2016, 02:01 PM

To show the punchwork. I hope it is clear enough!
Johan

Sajen · 7th October 2016, 02:09 PM

Dear Johan,

I have attached a picture from a keris in front side view, it's the show side.
Normally is a pendok only put-on over the wooden gandar. So you need only to reverse the pendok when possible. Pendoks can be engraved or punched (from front or the back). I haven't noticed until now that the pendok is decorated!

You should provide better and bigger pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

Jean · 7th October 2016, 04:35 PM

Hello Johan,
Thank you for the pic of the top part of the engraved pendok. It is of common quality, probably not from the North Coast, and if you reverse it as it should be, there will be some exposed wood at the top of the gandar on one side as the top of the pendok is not symmetrical, so you will have to file it. Considering the quality and condition of the pendok (bumps), I would try to replace it if I were you....
Regards
Edit: Sorry, I missed your post#21 so I understand the situation but it does not significantly change my reaction.

A. G. Maisey · 7th October 2016, 10:41 PM

Johan, we really do need full length photos, front and back, before we can make any worthwhile comment on this pendok.

As has already been said, it is probably incorrect for this wrongko, in fact from what little I can see, it looks like it might be a Jogja pendok.

However, if it is incorrect it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to get hold of a correct pendok.

Could you please let us see full length, front and back pics of the pendok?

Johan van Zyl · 8th October 2016, 12:31 PM

Hi guys, I'm trying to post good additional pics....Having listened carefully to your comments, I have decided to detach the pendok, which fortunately came off allright. See pics, made larger as you recommended....

Sajen · 8th October 2016, 06:23 PM

The pendok isn't from Yogya IMVHO but from Solo or Banyumas, I am unsure but Alan will know exactly. But it's cut in up like a Yogya pendok to fit this scabbard. Like Alan has pointed out already it will be more as difficult to find the correct pendok for this keris in question so I would let it with this keris. But I would try to get out the dents, you can work for this a simple wooden tool in form of a slim massive gandar or borrow from your wife a wooden spoon with long handle. And like Jean already write you will need to fit it new in up.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 8th October 2016, 09:19 PM

Yes, not Jogja.

As Detlef says, maybe Solo, maybe Banyumas, or maybe just generic Central Jawa.

Again, as detlef has advised, use something long enough and rounded to work out the dents from the inside. The proper tool for this is a sanglon, which is bronze or brass in the form of a gandar and is what is mostly used to form the gandar when it is being made. A substitute for this tool is just anything that will do the job without breaking. A piece of oval shaped hardwood works quite well.

7th October 2016, 02:09 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Dear Johan, I have attached a picture from a keris in front side view, it's the show side. Normally is a pendok only put-on over the wooden gandar. So you need only to reverse the pendok when possible. Pendoks can be engraved or punched (from front or the back). I haven't noticed until now that the pendok is decorated! You should provide better and bigger pictures. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

7th October 2016, 04:35 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Johan, Thank you for the pic of the top part of the engraved pendok. It is of common quality, probably not from the North Coast, and if you reverse it as it should be, there will be some exposed wood at the top of the gandar on one side as the top of the pendok is not symmetrical, so you will have to file it. Considering the quality and condition of the pendok (bumps), I would try to replace it if I were you.... Regards Edit: Sorry, I missed your post#21 so I understand the situation but it does not significantly change my reaction. Last edited by Jean; 7th October 2016 at 08:45 PM.

8th October 2016, 12:31 PM	#6
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Hi guys, I'm trying to post good additional pics....Having listened carefully to your comments, I have decided to detach the pendok, which fortunately came off allright. See pics, made larger as you recommended.... Attached Images

7th October 2016, 01:42 PM	#1
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	David, Jean & Mr Maisey, I am loath to ask more questions and put you to further trouble, but I cannot help myself. Your kind comments only serve to whet my interest further in regard to this awesome keris. (I have taken serious note of your advice so far and am amplifying my "Java Keris Book of Facts" as I go along.) May there be some more Q & A's before you lose patience with me! Noting what was said above about the inverted metal oversheath: When I received this keris and sheath, the wrangka was separated from the bunton-type gandar/pendok unit. I could not get confirmation from the owner that the warangka and pendok/gandar actually belonged to one another. He simply did not know, but he said he got it in that condition. I gently tried to fit the warangka to the rest of the sheath first the one way around, then the other. The way it is now, glued together by me, is the way it fitted best. I admit I let myself be led by this fit. The other way around was very ill-fitting. Now this might spell out that the two components do not belong to one another - the inverted fit being better merely by coincidence. In addition, the brass oversheath has floral/leafy designs on the one side, and looking at the indentations carefully, I think they were stamped in with punches and hammer, not incised/carved. If the quality of the oversheath is inferior to the quality of the wrangka, it might suggest the two do not match. Depending on your comments, I might have to detach and re-attach the wrangka other way round? Lastly, I am wondering about the pendok variation I have. It cannot be cukitan, because the design is not pierced, nor is it carved (krawangan). Is it a known variation when the decoration is by punch? Johan

7th October 2016, 02:01 PM	#2
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	To show the punchwork. I hope it is clear enough! Johan Attached Images

7th October 2016, 10:41 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Johan, we really do need full length photos, front and back, before we can make any worthwhile comment on this pendok. As has already been said, it is probably incorrect for this wrongko, in fact from what little I can see, it looks like it might be a Jogja pendok. However, if it is incorrect it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to get hold of a correct pendok. Could you please let us see full length, front and back pics of the pendok?

8th October 2016, 06:23 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	The pendok isn't from Yogya IMVHO but from Solo or Banyumas, I am unsure but Alan will know exactly. But it's cut in up like a Yogya pendok to fit this scabbard. Like Alan has pointed out already it will be more as difficult to find the correct pendok for this keris in question so I would let it with this keris. But I would try to get out the dents, you can work for this a simple wooden tool in form of a slim massive gandar or borrow from your wife a wooden spoon with long handle. And like Jean already write you will need to fit it new in up. Regards, Detlef

8th October 2016, 09:19 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Yes, not Jogja. As Detlef says, maybe Solo, maybe Banyumas, or maybe just generic Central Jawa. Again, as detlef has advised, use something long enough and rounded to work out the dents from the inside. The proper tool for this is a sanglon, which is bronze or brass in the form of a gandar and is what is mostly used to form the gandar when it is being made. A substitute for this tool is just anything that will do the job without breaking. A piece of oval shaped hardwood works quite well.