My Java keris

David · 6th October 2016, 04:48 PM

Johan, in response to some of your questions regarding your sheath, ladrang sheaths are for formal occasions (weddings, court, etc.) while gayaman sheaths are for everyday use. I am not sure if one is necessarily held in higher esteem, it is simply a matter of application.
As Detlef has already remarked, your sheath (wrongko) is of a lesser seen variety, so no, it has not been re-worked from a normal ladrang sheath.

Jean · 6th October 2016, 05:28 PM

Hello Johan,
According to the book "Keris dan senjata pusaka bahari", your warangka is in perahu labuh ( a type of boat it would seem) style from Cirebon. The S shaped rib on the right side of your picture is an additional indicator besides the slightly curved ends. By the way the pendok (metal oversheath) seems inverted, the carved side should be on the front of the scabbard.
Your warangka seems to be made from kemuning from the pics but other options are possible, a better picture would help.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 6th October 2016, 08:07 PM

Keris scabbards from before about 1400 seem to have been squarish in shape, somewhat similar to the scabbards that we now think of as Bugis.

By the first half of the 15th century a ladrangan style seems to have evolved.

There has been a theory floating around for a long time that the "boat" shape of some scabbards is in recognition of the ancestors having travelled by sea to settle in Jawa. I personally doubt this theory because the early ladrangan styles did not look nearly as boat-like as the much later Central Javanese styles, nor for that matter as boat-like as the North Coast styles, such as the one under discussion. My own feeling is that we simply have an instance of artistic advance.

I agree that kemuning might be a good bet for the scabbard wood.

Johan van Zyl · 7th October 2016, 01:42 PM

David, Jean & Mr Maisey, I am loath to ask more questions and put you to further trouble, but I cannot help myself. Your kind comments only serve to whet my interest further in regard to this awesome keris. (I have taken serious note of your advice so far and am amplifying my "Java Keris Book of Facts" as I go along.) May there be some more Q & A's before you lose patience with me!
Noting what was said above about the inverted metal oversheath: When I received this keris and sheath, the wrangka was separated from the bunton-type gandar/pendok unit. I could not get confirmation from the owner that the warangka and pendok/gandar actually belonged to one another. He simply did not know, but he said he got it in that condition. I gently tried to fit the warangka to the rest of the sheath first the one way around, then the other. The way it is now, glued together by me, is the way it fitted best. I admit I let myself be led by this fit. The other way around was very ill-fitting. Now this might spell out that the two components do not belong to one another - the inverted fit being better merely by coincidence.
In addition, the brass oversheath has floral/leafy designs on the one side, and looking at the indentations carefully, I think they were stamped in with punches and hammer, not incised/carved. If the quality of the oversheath is inferior to the quality of the wrangka, it might suggest the two do not match. Depending on your comments, I might have to detach and re-attach the wrangka other way round?
Lastly, I am wondering about the pendok variation I have. It cannot be cukitan, because the design is not pierced, nor is it carved (krawangan). Is it a known variation when the decoration is by punch?
Johan

Johan van Zyl · 7th October 2016, 02:01 PM

To show the punchwork. I hope it is clear enough!
Johan

Sajen · 7th October 2016, 02:09 PM

Dear Johan,

I have attached a picture from a keris in front side view, it's the show side.
Normally is a pendok only put-on over the wooden gandar. So you need only to reverse the pendok when possible. Pendoks can be engraved or punched (from front or the back). I haven't noticed until now that the pendok is decorated!

You should provide better and bigger pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

Jean · 7th October 2016, 04:35 PM

Hello Johan,
Thank you for the pic of the top part of the engraved pendok. It is of common quality, probably not from the North Coast, and if you reverse it as it should be, there will be some exposed wood at the top of the gandar on one side as the top of the pendok is not symmetrical, so you will have to file it. Considering the quality and condition of the pendok (bumps), I would try to replace it if I were you....
Regards
Edit: Sorry, I missed your post#21 so I understand the situation but it does not significantly change my reaction.

A. G. Maisey · 7th October 2016, 10:41 PM

Johan, we really do need full length photos, front and back, before we can make any worthwhile comment on this pendok.

As has already been said, it is probably incorrect for this wrongko, in fact from what little I can see, it looks like it might be a Jogja pendok.

However, if it is incorrect it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to get hold of a correct pendok.

Could you please let us see full length, front and back pics of the pendok?

7th October 2016, 02:01 PM	#5
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	To show the punchwork. I hope it is clear enough! Johan Attached Images

7th October 2016, 02:09 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,333	Dear Johan, I have attached a picture from a keris in front side view, it's the show side. Normally is a pendok only put-on over the wooden gandar. So you need only to reverse the pendok when possible. Pendoks can be engraved or punched (from front or the back). I haven't noticed until now that the pendok is decorated! You should provide better and bigger pictures. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

7th October 2016, 04:35 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Johan, Thank you for the pic of the top part of the engraved pendok. It is of common quality, probably not from the North Coast, and if you reverse it as it should be, there will be some exposed wood at the top of the gandar on one side as the top of the pendok is not symmetrical, so you will have to file it. Considering the quality and condition of the pendok (bumps), I would try to replace it if I were you.... Regards Edit: Sorry, I missed your post#21 so I understand the situation but it does not significantly change my reaction. Last edited by Jean; 7th October 2016 at 08:45 PM.

6th October 2016, 04:48 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	Johan, in response to some of your questions regarding your sheath, ladrang sheaths are for formal occasions (weddings, court, etc.) while gayaman sheaths are for everyday use. I am not sure if one is necessarily held in higher esteem, it is simply a matter of application. As Detlef has already remarked, your sheath (wrongko) is of a lesser seen variety, so no, it has not been re-worked from a normal ladrang sheath.

6th October 2016, 05:28 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Johan, According to the book "Keris dan senjata pusaka bahari", your warangka is in perahu labuh ( a type of boat it would seem) style from Cirebon. The S shaped rib on the right side of your picture is an additional indicator besides the slightly curved ends. By the way the pendok (metal oversheath) seems inverted, the carved side should be on the front of the scabbard. Your warangka seems to be made from kemuning from the pics but other options are possible, a better picture would help. Regards Attached Images

6th October 2016, 08:07 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Keris scabbards from before about 1400 seem to have been squarish in shape, somewhat similar to the scabbards that we now think of as Bugis. By the first half of the 15th century a ladrangan style seems to have evolved. There has been a theory floating around for a long time that the "boat" shape of some scabbards is in recognition of the ancestors having travelled by sea to settle in Jawa. I personally doubt this theory because the early ladrangan styles did not look nearly as boat-like as the much later Central Javanese styles, nor for that matter as boat-like as the North Coast styles, such as the one under discussion. My own feeling is that we simply have an instance of artistic advance. I agree that kemuning might be a good bet for the scabbard wood.

7th October 2016, 01:42 PM	#4
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	David, Jean & Mr Maisey, I am loath to ask more questions and put you to further trouble, but I cannot help myself. Your kind comments only serve to whet my interest further in regard to this awesome keris. (I have taken serious note of your advice so far and am amplifying my "Java Keris Book of Facts" as I go along.) May there be some more Q & A's before you lose patience with me! Noting what was said above about the inverted metal oversheath: When I received this keris and sheath, the wrangka was separated from the bunton-type gandar/pendok unit. I could not get confirmation from the owner that the warangka and pendok/gandar actually belonged to one another. He simply did not know, but he said he got it in that condition. I gently tried to fit the warangka to the rest of the sheath first the one way around, then the other. The way it is now, glued together by me, is the way it fitted best. I admit I let myself be led by this fit. The other way around was very ill-fitting. Now this might spell out that the two components do not belong to one another - the inverted fit being better merely by coincidence. In addition, the brass oversheath has floral/leafy designs on the one side, and looking at the indentations carefully, I think they were stamped in with punches and hammer, not incised/carved. If the quality of the oversheath is inferior to the quality of the wrangka, it might suggest the two do not match. Depending on your comments, I might have to detach and re-attach the wrangka other way round? Lastly, I am wondering about the pendok variation I have. It cannot be cukitan, because the design is not pierced, nor is it carved (krawangan). Is it a known variation when the decoration is by punch? Johan

7th October 2016, 10:41 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Johan, we really do need full length photos, front and back, before we can make any worthwhile comment on this pendok. As has already been said, it is probably incorrect for this wrongko, in fact from what little I can see, it looks like it might be a Jogja pendok. However, if it is incorrect it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to get hold of a correct pendok. Could you please let us see full length, front and back pics of the pendok?