Yataghan or Flyssa?

ilias · 24th September 2016, 01:01 PM

A nice yataghan.
Congratulations!!!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th September 2016, 01:37 PM

Can someone please outline the difference between a Turkish Yatagan and a Greek Yatagan? Is there a stamp on this blade?

kronckew · 24th September 2016, 01:40 PM

i read elsewhere here that the balkan ones, like my bulgarian one, have integral bolsters, where the turkish ones do not, having a seperate bolster that extends decoratively up the blade for a short bit. not sure abput that tho. i'm sure someone will comment.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th September 2016, 01:43 PM

My assumption is that there is no difference but that it signifies generally Ottoman...or at the time Greece was a protectorate of the Ottoman Empire...

ariel · 25th September 2016, 01:58 AM

There was no "Greece" till 1821. Just as there was no Serbia, and no "Bulgaria" till 1908 ( in 1878 they got an autonomous state).
Integral bolsters were specific for Bulgarian karakulaks and Zeibek Yataghans. The rest had thin hollow bolsters similar to Afghani khybers. There are very few minor decorative features attributing yataghans to specific localities: all silver nielloed , small-eared Cretan, smooth round corals from Foca, karabela-like handles from North Africa... Blades were made everywhere, but mainly in Anatolia and Bosnia and sold en masse. Very few are signed with Christian names or Gregorian dates.

Kronckew's question is superficiously simple ( it is a yataghan, not a flyssa), but older flyssa did have a yataghan-like appearance, suggesting their origin.
And I am not surprised that Brits called Khybers Salavar (mutilated Selaava) Yataghans: many of them do have recurved blades. This begs a question.....:-))))

kronckew · 25th September 2016, 07:29 AM

wasn't really a question - what it was has not been in doubt with me, just the auction house.

consider it rhetorical. along with the khyber i was having a small dig at the level of expertise. oddly they also sold in the same auction a number of 'yataghan' bayonets that sold for more than my yat did, so they are familiar with the term.

my khyber knife has a very slight but noticeable s-curve to the spine, not noticeable in it's photo but more apparent if you lay a yardstick on it.

it was referred to as a salawar yataghan in an earlier thread where i'd posted it by one of our esteemed colleagues here.

photo of my integral bolster karakulak yat/bulgarian shepherd's knife from a dealer in varna also attached for comparison.

ariel · 25th September 2016, 04:09 PM

I would just like to pour some gas on the fire :-))

Here is an old Flyssa with a relatively short blade that is close to yataghan's. It has an exteremely large and massive integral bolster and a pommel that is a crude but unmistakeable rendition of the karabela-like "eagle head" form so characteristic of North African yataghans. Spring in his book about African weapons refers to Flyssa's pommel as resembling animal head and mentions previous attempts to attribute it to eagles, ducks and dogs.
I would venture to support the " eagle" origin, although perhaps it is "bass ackward": it may be just a simplified karabela pattern that we read as resembling an eagle:-)

25th September 2016, 07:29 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	wasn't really a question - what it was has not been in doubt with me, just the auction house. consider it rhetorical. along with the khyber i was having a small dig at the level of expertise. oddly they also sold in the same auction a number of 'yataghan' bayonets that sold for more than my yat did, so they are familiar with the term. my khyber knife has a very slight but noticeable s-curve to the spine, not noticeable in it's photo but more apparent if you lay a yardstick on it. it was referred to as a salawar yataghan in an earlier thread where i'd posted it by one of our esteemed colleagues here. photo of my integral bolster karakulak yat/bulgarian shepherd's knife from a dealer in varna also attached for comparison. Attached Images

25th September 2016, 04:09 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I would just like to pour some gas on the fire :-)) Here is an old Flyssa with a relatively short blade that is close to yataghan's. It has an exteremely large and massive integral bolster and a pommel that is a crude but unmistakeable rendition of the karabela-like "eagle head" form so characteristic of North African yataghans. Spring in his book about African weapons refers to Flyssa's pommel as resembling animal head and mentions previous attempts to attribute it to eagles, ducks and dogs. I would venture to support the " eagle" origin, although perhaps it is "bass ackward": it may be just a simplified karabela pattern that we read as resembling an eagle:-) Attached Images

24th September 2016, 01:01 PM	#1
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	A nice yataghan. Congratulations!!!

24th September 2016, 01:37 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Can someone please outline the difference between a Turkish Yatagan and a Greek Yatagan? Is there a stamp on this blade?

24th September 2016, 01:40 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	i read elsewhere here that the balkan ones, like my bulgarian one, have integral bolsters, where the turkish ones do not, having a seperate bolster that extends decoratively up the blade for a short bit. not sure abput that tho. i'm sure someone will comment.

24th September 2016, 01:43 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	My assumption is that there is no difference but that it signifies generally Ottoman...or at the time Greece was a protectorate of the Ottoman Empire...

25th September 2016, 01:58 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	There was no "Greece" till 1821. Just as there was no Serbia, and no "Bulgaria" till 1908 ( in 1878 they got an autonomous state). Integral bolsters were specific for Bulgarian karakulaks and Zeibek Yataghans. The rest had thin hollow bolsters similar to Afghani khybers. There are very few minor decorative features attributing yataghans to specific localities: all silver nielloed , small-eared Cretan, smooth round corals from Foca, karabela-like handles from North Africa... Blades were made everywhere, but mainly in Anatolia and Bosnia and sold en masse. Very few are signed with Christian names or Gregorian dates. Kronckew's question is superficiously simple ( it is a yataghan, not a flyssa), but older flyssa did have a yataghan-like appearance, suggesting their origin. And I am not surprised that Brits called Khybers Salavar (mutilated Selaava) Yataghans: many of them do have recurved blades. This begs a question.....:-))))