Ottoman Balkan Miquelet muskets

[rickystl]

Hi Cerjak.

Thank you for posting these updated photos. Those Boyliyas are beautiful. And in very nice condition. Even with a slight variation in decoration, you can see the general pattern for the Boyliya being very similar. And notice the butt stocks made in two pieces. I remember in the earlier posts discussing the diiferent theories for the two-piece butt stocks on many Ottoman style guns.

I notice this Tufuk musket has the extra short butt stock, but a full length barrel. Some thought these guns originally had longer butt stocks that may have been damaged and repaired leaving it short, requiring it to be shot from the cheek, Japanese matchlock style. But I've never thought this to be true. I've seen too many examples of the Tufuk made this way. Still not sure why.

Anyway, very nice pieces ALL !!! I still do not have a Boyliya in my collection.

Rick

[Oliver Pinchot]

The tufek is absolutely missing the butt.

[Cerjak]

Hi Rick and Olivier,
Thank you for your comment.
Some better pictures.
Best cerjak

[rickystl]

Hi Cerjak.

Thanks for the additional photos. That helps a bunch.
To me, this gun with the short butt stock was made this way. The brass decoration and bone butt cap at the heel of the stock all look correct. If a rear portion of the butt stock were damaged, or otherwise missing, it would be little effort to simply add the new wood and re-install the bone butt cap. But I have seen photos and held many that were obviously made short this way.
I had the thought that the short butt stock might might allow the shooter to fire from the waist area while on horseback ala blunderbuss knee pistol style. Which I guess could be done. But then, there would be no need for a rear sight. And the pistol would be a much handier weapon on horseback. My only conclusion at present is that they were made for aiming/firing from the cheek, with the arms taking the recoil vs the shoulder. Just my best guess.

Although not as nice as Cerjak's, here is another example with the short butt stock.

Rick

[Kubur]

I'm shared on this one.
Like Rick, I have seen many tufek with short butts.
And I have no problem with that.
My problem is the bone butt cap, it looks more recent to me and badly cut.
I think it's a replacement.
I post mine and the funny thing is the last barrel band.
They reused an old engraving of a ship, most probably from Ottoman naval forces.

[Cerjak]

Rick

See This one who need a good restauration .
You can see easily That the butt stock is made of several pieces.
Best
cerjak

[ariel]

Can you specify using the very first picture which one is dated?
And any dates/ signatures on the other two?
Thanks.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Rick

See This one who need a good restauration .
You can see easily That the butt stock is made of several pieces.
Best
cerjak

Hi Cerjak

Ohhhh........yes, that one would need a lot of restoration. For ME, that would be a perfect "parts" gun to keep on hand for restoring others.

But yes. As you mention the shoulder length Tufuck butt stocks were made in at least two sections. And everyone I've seen were made this way. Except, the short grip variation mentioned above. One reason I believe the shoulder length butt stock was made as a seperate piece was to accomodate the desired LOP for the individual owner. This would allow a shorter or longer LOP for a different owner by just shortening or adding wood to the stock at a future time. Of course, thats just one theory of mine.

What I have noticed in handling and measuring many of these Tufucks, the LOP on the shoulder length stocks measure about 12" (30.5cm) and the short butt stocks are about 8" (20.3cm). And this seems consistant with each one I've measured.

Rick

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I'm shared on this one.
Like Rick, I have seen many tufek with short butts.
And I have no problem with that.
My problem is the bone butt cap, it looks more recent to me and badly cut.
I think it's a replacement.
I post mine and the funny thing is the last barrel band.
They reused an old engraving of a ship, most probably from Ottoman naval forces.

Hi Kubur.

The butt cap may indeed be a later replacemnt. It does seem a bit crude and not up to the typical standard.
That barrel band is interesting. They usually have just a small amount of generic decoration. It does look like the band may have been made from from a brass piece that was originally used with something else. Very neat.

By the way. In your travels, have you ever seen those small, round, brass mosaic pieces for sale anywhere ?

Rick

[Cerjak]

Hi Rick and Olivier,
Thank you for your comment.
Some better pictures.
Best cerjak