Handgonne Barrels and Böllers

fernando · 18th August 2016, 11:28 PM

Great stuff, Michael. Somehow a specific subject, and perhaps not reaching the interest of other than hand cannon (and similar) lovers. No doubt Matchlock, if he was with us, would be the first one to react and offer his thoughts about your thesis.
I would risk to say that part of your conclusions find relation with discussions already exchanged here. When you assume that böllers (noise makers to put it simple) and their familiarity with gonne barrels have their origin in the mountains of Austria and Germany, am i silly to suggest that these devices also played a role in other nations ?. I have a number of those in my little collection and i would venture that their provenance is not Germanic or from such neighborhood.
It would also be fair to subscribe Marcus assumption in that, despite böllers derive from gonne barrels, they found their own path by adopting a form more according with their upright firing position, with their wider base, something not so propper to find in gonne barrels.
Also i would not be so restrict in assuming that these 'tubes' only had one purpose; one would accept that they were not powder testers or cannons, but it is rather plausible they were also used for (navy) signals and certainly as defence traps. But i admit i never studied these things in depth and may be talking a lot of nonsense.

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Silver Shield · 19th August 2016, 04:34 PM

Fernando you are 100% correct in all your statements. I have only meant to imply , that in these small somewhat isolated areas the history of relationship between gonne barrels and bollers , may have been preserved, from these areas . I think it would be ridiculous to imply that these devices never where used in other ways. And I have no knowledge of other European boller types in a fixed and large sample over a long time period . My other point was why so many medieval gonne barrels where persevered in a small geographical area , dating from the same 30 year or so period , and of the same general type . The point about , being made for or as , was a response to auctions commonly calling bollers hand cannon !

Andreas · 19th August 2016, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

to suggest that these devices also played a role in other nations ?

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A procession in Corfu by Joseph Cartwright, 1821. Interestingly, these pyrotechnic devices were called in the Ionian Islands mascoula, from the Italian mascolo, meaning the removable breech block or the breech chamber of early guns.
Andreas

fernando · 19th August 2016, 06:42 PM

Most interesting pictures Andreas. Thanks for sharing.

18th August 2016, 11:28 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Great stuff, Michael. Somehow a specific subject, and perhaps not reaching the interest of other than hand cannon (and similar) lovers. No doubt Matchlock, if he was with us, would be the first one to react and offer his thoughts about your thesis. I would risk to say that part of your conclusions find relation with discussions already exchanged here. When you assume that böllers (noise makers to put it simple) and their familiarity with gonne barrels have their origin in the mountains of Austria and Germany, am i silly to suggest that these devices also played a role in other nations ?. I have a number of those in my little collection and i would venture that their provenance is not Germanic or from such neighborhood. It would also be fair to subscribe Marcus assumption in that, despite böllers derive from gonne barrels, they found their own path by adopting a form more according with their upright firing position, with their wider base, something not so propper to find in gonne barrels. Also i would not be so restrict in assuming that these 'tubes' only had one purpose; one would accept that they were not powder testers or cannons, but it is rather plausible they were also used for (navy) signals and certainly as defence traps. But i admit i never studied these things in depth and may be talking a lot of nonsense. . Attached Images

19th August 2016, 04:34 PM	#2
Silver Shield Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Phoenix Arizona USA Posts: 32	A small area study Fernando you are 100% correct in all your statements. I have only meant to imply , that in these small somewhat isolated areas the history of relationship between gonne barrels and bollers , may have been preserved, from these areas . I think it would be ridiculous to imply that these devices never where used in other ways. And I have no knowledge of other European boller types in a fixed and large sample over a long time period . My other point was why so many medieval gonne barrels where persevered in a small geographical area , dating from the same 30 year or so period , and of the same general type . The point about , being made for or as , was a response to auctions commonly calling bollers hand cannon !

19th August 2016, 06:42 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Most interesting pictures Andreas. Thanks for sharing.