18th century hanger with possible naval connections

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

...and speaking of the French-Mexican design continuum, I recently picked this saber's up right out of the woodwork!

And, to boot, it came from a kid I went to grammar school with fifty years ago! It is something he said that had always been in his family, but he had no other info about it.

I didn't know what it was except that it had a typical c.1850's American style blade etched with pretty much boilerplate decoration and "US".

After posting it on another forum and a little digging around a bit I learned it is a militia saber from Stockton, California, of the Stockton Blues Militia.

I've never heard of this unit or was aware anything like it existed. The one piece cast brass hilt with unique lines (for the US) was a puzzle to me.

California still retained its Spanish aesthetic even though it was a part of the US at the time this saber was made.

So, to bring this around full circle, a French form that inspired Mexican design, that, in turn inspired an American form!

This is the great thing about this forum. By seeing things juxtaposed side by side and understanding each region's history, the big picture becomes more clear!

This has been a "Eureka" moment for me today.

The Stockton Blues swords are blade marked to Horstmann. It has been determined that they were assembled from parts by Bannerman (see the Flayderman/Mowbray Medicus Collection book). Sometimes still listed as ACW period variants, they are later in time. I would think it would also be mentioned in the latest Thillman but I don't have his newer "master".

Sharkskin scabbards. Both U.S. naval and infantry blades have been found with this hilt.

Somewhere in my files is a Peter Knecht marked cavalry size saber blade that could easily be as late as the 1830s, or even later.

Cheers

GC

[Hotspur]

Regarding the sword of this thread, I feel it is similar to some other hangers and even before that with the French heart and half heart type straight hangers. IIRC there is an article pair from Petard that show a nice evolution of French swords in the 18th century.

Anyway, the straight hangers were secondary arms and tools continuing with Rose and Starr into the 19th century. My old French hanger almost a ringer for the Rose artillery sword. I know other countries continued as well.

Maritime use would make sense. My oldster is listed as a sabre troupe marine. Also the Rose article showing the similarity near a century later. The French went from full to half then no counterguard with the 1750s revolutions of brass hilts.

From old to new would be my quite wide bladed Starr 1818. As so many variations we see, they seem to have a common chromosome as to blade length, even with the early Ames militia swords with 21" blades (25" in the 1850s).

Here is the Petard article. I'm linking from my Google drive if the system won't upload the file (I guess it did).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9A...ew?usp=sharing


Cheers

GC

>sigh so may of my files are too big to share on my bedside brainiac.