Mecca Shibriya

ariel · 7th August 2016, 12:57 AM

I have my doubts whether it can be addressed as shibriya. The blade is uniformly bent on both sides.
But in shibriya one side stays almost straight, but the other one suddenly tapers to create a needle pointed tip.

I think you have a classical Janbiya with a somewhat simplified blade ( no central rib).

Check Artzi's site Oriental_Arms: he has an enormous collection of shibriyas.

A.alnakkas · 7th August 2016, 02:39 AM

Ariel,

The name shibriya is a measurement by nature. Its the size that define a shibriya, not the shape of the blade.

Also, within its local context, it is named a shibriya and worn like one. And there are Jordanian shibriyas with the typical double edged, slightly curved blade.

I agree that most come with the blade shape you describe.

ariel · 7th August 2016, 03:10 AM

Thanks. I knew the etymology: shibr, but did not know that this name was in use outside the Syrian-Palestinian-Jordanian areal.
One lives, one learns:-)

A.alnakkas · 7th August 2016, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks. I knew the etymology: shibr, but did not know that this name was in use outside the Syrian-Palestinian-Jordanian areal.
One lives, one learns:-)

Its very widespread. ِThough you do find old, locally used shibriyas for example in Riyadh and say, Kuwait.. but with Muhaisin made blades. Will try to snap a few photos of heirlooms soon. Its not as simple as it sounds.

motan · 7th August 2016, 08:41 AM

Hi, Ik don't really think it matters how you call it, but I like it a lot. It shows very nicely how regional styles merge where geographical areas meet. The main influence on the decoration and style are clearly of Jordanian shybriyas, but influences of Yemenite Khanjar and even more clearly, of Nejd ("wahabite") styles are apprent. The workmanship is far better than in avarage shibriya and the metal sheat looks thicker and of better quality (silver?) than in most shibriyas.

motan · 7th August 2016, 09:06 AM

Hi again. Ariel, in my view, all shibriyas come from curved daggers. The recurve shape became popular only around WWI. Were these pre-shibriya daggers also called shibriya? Who knows. To support this hypothesis, I posted a few photographs of older "shibriyas" as well as bedouin with this type of dagger.

A.alnakkas · 25th February 2017, 06:29 PM

Here are more daggers from what is now known as KSA. The large, silver dagger with the well made blade is made by Ali AlBani who descends from a famous sword making family. They were originally in Ha'il but moved to Riyadh after AlSaud defeated AlRasheed. The rest are of Saudi craftsmanship telling from the style and decoration methods.

A.alnakkas · 25th February 2017, 06:36 PM

Now, when a shibriya is large enough to be at the size of a Persian khanjar or an Omani khanjar... is it still a shibriya? :-) Something Ariel would like...

Comaprison between multiple shibriyas and other types of daggers. The twins are of Palestinian/Sinai like craftsmanship... and similar craftsmanship is seen in images posted by Motan. The size though surprised me! they are big compared to the usual shibriyas.

Kubur · 27th February 2017, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motan

Hi again. Ariel, in my view, all shibriyas come from curved daggers. The recurve shape became popular only around WWI. Were these pre-shibriya daggers also called shibriya? Who knows. To support this hypothesis, I posted a few photographs of older "shibriyas" as well as bedouin with this type of dagger.

another bedouin...

motan · 27th February 2017, 10:21 PM

Hi A.alnakkas,
I actually thought that the name shibriya was not used outside Israel/Jordan +Sinai. Western collectors always talk about the Khanjars of Oman, the Janbiyas of Yemen, Najran and Hejaz and Dharias (sabiki) of central Arabia, but not about shibriyas. So there IS some continuity across the great desert.
Here in Israel/Palestine, the term shibriya is used by Bedu and some villagers for up to the lower Galilea. All other people, including most villagers and city people would call any type of dagger khanjar, which as an Arabic speaker you know is the generic term for dagger in Arabic.

7th August 2016, 08:41 AM	#5
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	What's in a name? Hi, Ik don't really think it matters how you call it, but I like it a lot. It shows very nicely how regional styles merge where geographical areas meet. The main influence on the decoration and style are clearly of Jordanian shybriyas, but influences of Yemenite Khanjar and even more clearly, of Nejd ("wahabite") styles are apprent. The workmanship is far better than in avarage shibriya and the metal sheat looks thicker and of better quality (silver?) than in most shibriyas.

7th August 2016, 09:06 AM	#6
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Shibriya blades Hi again. Ariel, in my view, all shibriyas come from curved daggers. The recurve shape became popular only around WWI. Were these pre-shibriya daggers also called shibriya? Who knows. To support this hypothesis, I posted a few photographs of older "shibriyas" as well as bedouin with this type of dagger. Attached Images

25th February 2017, 06:29 PM	#7
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Here are more daggers from what is now known as KSA. The large, silver dagger with the well made blade is made by Ali AlBani who descends from a famous sword making family. They were originally in Ha'il but moved to Riyadh after AlSaud defeated AlRasheed. The rest are of Saudi craftsmanship telling from the style and decoration methods. Attached Images

25th February 2017, 06:36 PM	#8
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Now, when a shibriya is large enough to be at the size of a Persian khanjar or an Omani khanjar... is it still a shibriya? :-) Something Ariel would like... Comaprison between multiple shibriyas and other types of daggers. The twins are of Palestinian/Sinai like craftsmanship... and similar craftsmanship is seen in images posted by Motan. The size though surprised me! they are big compared to the usual shibriyas. Attached Images

27th February 2017, 10:21 PM	#10
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Terminology Hi A.alnakkas, I actually thought that the name shibriya was not used outside Israel/Jordan +Sinai. Western collectors always talk about the Khanjars of Oman, the Janbiyas of Yemen, Najran and Hejaz and Dharias (sabiki) of central Arabia, but not about shibriyas. So there IS some continuity across the great desert. Here in Israel/Palestine, the term shibriya is used by Bedu and some villagers for up to the lower Galilea. All other people, including most villagers and city people would call any type of dagger khanjar, which as an Arabic speaker you know is the generic term for dagger in Arabic.

7th August 2016, 12:57 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have my doubts whether it can be addressed as shibriya. The blade is uniformly bent on both sides. But in shibriya one side stays almost straight, but the other one suddenly tapers to create a needle pointed tip. I think you have a classical Janbiya with a somewhat simplified blade ( no central rib). Check Artzi's site Oriental_Arms: he has an enormous collection of shibriyas.

7th August 2016, 02:39 AM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Ariel, The name shibriya is a measurement by nature. Its the size that define a shibriya, not the shape of the blade. Also, within its local context, it is named a shibriya and worn like one. And there are Jordanian shibriyas with the typical double edged, slightly curved blade. I agree that most come with the blade shape you describe.

7th August 2016, 03:10 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks. I knew the etymology: shibr, but did not know that this name was in use outside the Syrian-Palestinian-Jordanian areal. One lives, one learns:-)