What is a KARUD?!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

Eric,

This approach is fine if we accept terms "Khyber knife or Salawar Yataghan" as an authentic name for Selaawa (or whatever other phonetic rendition to define an Afghani short sword of a characteristic form). Or using " Pulwar" to designate an Afghani version of Tulwar with a specific handle instead of a locally-used "Shamshir". Stenography has its uses and charms.

Just like you, I am also not particularly bothered by the usage of "Karud", as long as I remember that the best title for an article about it would be " Karud: a Comedy of Errors"

The "name game" is a fertile ground for pseudo-discoveries , especially if it is based on attempted phonetizations of foreign words. Professor Higgins, just like Henry Moser, never visited Afghanistan:-)

Ariel, I do not think we have to accept any of the currently used names as being "authentic", but we do need some commonly accepted terms, if not "karud" for the straight bladed relative of the pesh then what? Same for the khyber knife, khanjar, jambiya, kard etc.

When someone that I know tells me they have a "karud" I understand what they are describing, that is useful to me, were and when this name came into use is a secondary question and it is very interesting to delve into this subject but we do need descriptive terms that the majority of interested people can agree on. On another note, people who speak English as a primary language often use terms that are different than people who speak another language such as German or Italian etc.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ariel, I do not think we have to accept any of the currently used names as being "authentic", but we do need some commonly accepted terms, if not "karud" for the straight bladed relative of the pesh then what? Same for the khyber knife, khanjar, jambiya, kard etc.

When someone that I know tells me they have a "karud" I understand what they are describing, that is useful to me, were and when this name came into use is a secondary question and it is very interesting to delve into this subject but we do need descriptive terms that the majority of interested people can agree on. On another note, people who speak English as a primary language often use terms that are different than people who speak another language such as German or Italian etc.

Absolutely right, estcrh

[mariusgmioc]

Yes, it makes perfect sense to use a term that is commonly accepted in order to define an object.

I agree that when refering to a Pesh-kabz there is more ambiguity about the type of dagger we are talking about. Is it recurved, is it straight, does it have single edge or double false edge, etc. Yet when we say Choora, for example everybody knows exactly what type of Pesh-kabz we are talking about.

So KARUD it is!

Maybe for you guys it was trivial, but for me was interesting and educative! Thank you for your comments.

I still would love to read the whole article Mahratt send us the link to, as I bet it is very interesting. I was wondering wheteher we can access somehow the Russian version and Google translate it?!


PS: Can we assume that the Choora is a particular type of Karud (with aparticularly shaped hilt and generally metal front bolster)?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I still would love to read the whole article Mahratt send us the link to, as I bet it is very interesting. I was wondering wheteher we can access somehow the Russian version and Google translate it?!

My friend, I can send you my article in Russian. Send me on the forum a personal message with the name your e-mail.

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Can we assume that the Choora is a particular type of Karud (with aparticularly shaped hilt and generally metal front bolster)?

If you are interested, my opinion, I think it the Choora is derived from Karud. But the Choora not equal Karud

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

PS: Can we assume that the Choora is a particular type of Karud (with aparticularly shaped hilt and generally metal front bolster)?

Here is my version of the common varieties, all distinctively different enough for each type to be easily distinguishable from each other.

Pesh

Karud

Choora

Kard

Jambiya

[mahratt]

I think the most telling of all known image from Artzi:

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by mahratt

I think the most telling of all known image from Artzi:

That would be also my understanding in the light of all discussed above. Both sets of photos are very clear and clarifying. Thank you again!

However, in your first photos, what you call Jambiya, I would have called Khanjar. For me Jambiya would be the typical Yemeni/Saudi dagger (as well as the Omani Khanjar).

What do you think about this?

But maybe we should open a new thread to debate the difference between Jambyia and Khanjar?!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

That would be also my understanding in the light of all discussed above. Both sets of photos are very clear and clarifying. Thank you again!

However, in your first photos, what you call Jambiya, I would have called Khanjar. For me Jambiya would be the typical Yemeni/Saudi dagger (as well as the Omani Khanjar).

What do you think about this?

But maybe we should open a new thread to debate the difference between Jambyia and Khanjar?!

Jambiya have a single curved, double edged blade, khanjar have a double curved, double edged blade. People from Arabian regions often interchange these terms but there is a very noticeable difference between the two blade types. Jambiya and khanjar are two more examples of descriptive terms which allows people to instantly know which dagger you are describing.

Once again were are talking about how these two terms are generally used in the West by English speaking collectors and dealers etc and not by the cultures that actually used them.

Two examples from Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour By Lord Egerton of Tatton and India: Art and Culture, 1300-1900 By Stuart Cary Welch, Metropolitan Museum of Art (New York, N.Y.)