Sumatran, Borneo or Moro???

VVV · 8th February 2006, 08:12 PM

Rick,

It's a horn ring.
I have seen a resembling decoration as on the silver on two of my Melanau
(NW Borneo) parang - a Sadap and a Parang Pedang.
Enclosed pictures for you to compare.
Otherwise usually the Melanau parang have heavy and thick blades.
I just noticed that there are 3 dots in a (female) triangle at the bottom
of the scabbard which is usually attributed to Sumatra?

Michael

Rick · 8th February 2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Rick,

It's a horn ring.
I have seen a resembling decoration as on the silver on two of my Melanau
(NW Borneo) parang - a Sadap and a Parang Pedang.
Enclosed pictures for you to compare.
Otherwise usually the Melanau parang have heavy and thick blades.
I just noticed that there are 3 dots in a (female) triangle at the bottom
of the scabbard which is usually attributed to Sumatra?

Michael

Interesting stuff Michael ; I must admit to being ignorant about the three dot = female Sumatran style motif you mention .

There is a traced Moro Sumatran connection in history of the S. Philippines .
If I recall correctly Saleeby mentions it in *The History of Sulu*.

Re the scabbard :
I would like to comment on the resemblance to a Dyak scabbard in that this one has a neck like the mandau scabbards .

VVV · 9th February 2006, 06:06 AM

Thanks for mentioning the Moro Sumatran connection.
As you know there are several Kris Sundang and some Kampilan in the
museum collections being collected in Sumatra.
Probably from the local colony of Moros that once moved south.
So why not a 2nd generation style Barong?
Seems like all of the Sumatran/Borneo/Moro tracks still are probable?

Michael

PS On the VVV pattern with flowers I forgot to add that this is also
sometimes found on Java. But I don't think that this weapon has had
anything to do with Java.

Rick · 9th February 2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Thanks for mentioning the Moro Sumatran connection.
As you know there are several Kris Sundang and some Kampilan in the
museum collections being collected in Sumatra.
Probably from the local colony of Moros that once moved south.
So why not a 2nd generation style Barong?
Seems like all of the Sumatran/Borneo/Moro tracks still are probable?

Michael

PS On the VVV pattern with flowers I forgot to add that this is also
sometimes found on Java. But I don't think that this weapon has had
anything to do with Java.

Hi Michael , IIRC the Sumatran connection with Sulu involved a noble family fleeing strife in Sumatra for the safety of the S. Philippines .
Mabagani or Federico could probably correct me or elaborate further .

Since there was trading all over the archipelago tracks could lead anywhere .

I just get this Borneo feeling from the piece ; but that feeling and $3.00 will get you a cup of coffee .

VVV · 9th February 2006, 03:47 PM

Hi Rick,

I was of course referring to the other way around, the "Colonies" of Moros settling in Sumatra.
Let's see if somebody else has any new tracks and ideas?

Michael

Rick · 9th February 2006, 05:00 PM

Sorry Michael , my ignorance is showing .

I was unaware of the existence of Moro colonies in Sumatra ; would love to know more .

MABAGANI · 10th February 2006, 06:33 PM

The blade shape, forte and scabbard point towards a rehilt of a Moro spearhead. There's too much metal around the forte to be a cut down barung. I've seen this forte form on a kris shaped spear. Double edged barung usually go half or two thirds of the blade spine, this shape goes down much of the rear. The punto design is still consistent with Sulu ukkil and the horn ring is not uncommon. The pommel is odd in that it was made to match the hook on the blade, intentionally designed to show that it was not a traditional barung. Possibly retired to a sword or rehilted to look like a sword for trade, nicely done work. Thinking out loud, btw...lolz.

8th February 2006, 08:12 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Rick, It's a horn ring. I have seen a resembling decoration as on the silver on two of my Melanau (NW Borneo) parang - a Sadap and a Parang Pedang. Enclosed pictures for you to compare. Otherwise usually the Melanau parang have heavy and thick blades. I just noticed that there are 3 dots in a (female) triangle at the bottom of the scabbard which is usually attributed to Sumatra? Michael Attached Images

9th February 2006, 06:06 AM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for mentioning the Moro Sumatran connection. As you know there are several Kris Sundang and some Kampilan in the museum collections being collected in Sumatra. Probably from the local colony of Moros that once moved south. So why not a 2nd generation style Barong? Seems like all of the Sumatran/Borneo/Moro tracks still are probable? Michael PS On the VVV pattern with flowers I forgot to add that this is also sometimes found on Java. But I don't think that this weapon has had anything to do with Java.

9th February 2006, 03:47 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Rick, I was of course referring to the other way around, the "Colonies" of Moros settling in Sumatra. Let's see if somebody else has any new tracks and ideas? Michael

9th February 2006, 05:00 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Sorry Michael , my ignorance is showing . I was unaware of the existence of Moro colonies in Sumatra ; would love to know more .

10th February 2006, 06:33 PM	#7
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	The blade shape, forte and scabbard point towards a rehilt of a Moro spearhead. There's too much metal around the forte to be a cut down barung. I've seen this forte form on a kris shaped spear. Double edged barung usually go half or two thirds of the blade spine, this shape goes down much of the rear. The punto design is still consistent with Sulu ukkil and the horn ring is not uncommon. The pommel is odd in that it was made to match the hook on the blade, intentionally designed to show that it was not a traditional barung. Possibly retired to a sword or rehilted to look like a sword for trade, nicely done work. Thinking out loud, btw...lolz.