Oh well, I wasn't really in the market for another kris

A. G. Maisey · 15th June 2016, 03:12 PM

I have a distinct problem with this keris.

If we consider the component parts we have a wewer that is very definitely Balinese and from post 1960.

The sarung is a Balinese style, executed in what appears to be sono wood and I can see no indication at all that it is not of Balinese manufacture.

The danganan is a Balinese style, but of comparatively recent manufacture, it may be Balinese, it may be a Madurese or Javanese copy, from the photo I cannot tell.

The blade is a real puzzle. It is most definitely not a Balinese style, nor does the material have the characteristics of a Balinese blade, the finish of the surface is not typically Balinese, the manner in which the material has been welded is not typically Balinese, the pawakan is not typically Balinese, the carving at the gandhik is not typically Balinese.

What makes this problem more difficult still is that nothing about this blade is typical of Madura blades made after 1980.

Nor does it give the impression of Javanese workmanship.

I believe we can confidently eliminate all other keris bearing societies as a possible source, with one exception: Lombok.

Lombok is well known for some very peculiar keris, and this one is indeed very peculiar.

I am not saying that this keris is Lombok, but I do think that Lombok is a more likely place of origin than any other.

Jean · 15th June 2016, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I have a distinct problem with this keris.

If we consider the component parts we have a wewer that is very definitely Balinese and from post 1960.

The sarung is a Balinese style, executed in what appears to be sono wood and I can see no indication at all that it is not of Balinese manufacture.

The danganan is a Balinese style, but of comparatively recent manufacture, it may be Balinese, it may be a Madurese or Javanese copy, from the photo I cannot tell.

The blade is a real puzzle. It is most definitely not a Balinese style, nor does the material have the characteristics of a Balinese blade, the finish of the surface is not typically Balinese, the manner in which the material has been welded is not typically Balinese, the pawakan is not typically Balinese, the carving at the gandhik is not typically Balinese.

What makes this problem more difficult still is that nothing about this blade is typical of Madura blades made after 1980.

Nor does it give the impression of Javanese workmanship.

I believe we can confidently eliminate all other keris bearing societies as a possible source, with one exception: Lombok.

Lombok is well known for some very peculiar keris, and this one is indeed very peculiar.

I am not saying that this keris is Lombok, but I do think that Lombok is a more likely place of origin than any other.

Hello Alan,
The sarung and danganan can easily have been made in Java or Madura I think, and the wood looks to have been dyed. I attach the pics of an original kojongan sarung from Lombok for comparison.
Regarding the blade, I have a rather similar naga blade in balinese style but which I attributed to Madura, what do you think? (sorry for the pics quality).
Can anybody confirm that there were some active kris makers active in Lombok during the recent years or decades? (I personally don't know but never heard that it was the case).
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 16th June 2016, 12:01 AM

Jean, i'm sorry, but to my eyes the pics of the keris you have posted look nothing at all like Marcus' keris.

However, I have given my opinion, I have nothing to add to it, and we are all entitled to our own opinion.

EDIT

Sorry Jean, I misunderstood your post #7 I think.

Yes, the blade you show is very probably Madura.

The wrongko you show is not kayu sono, I don't know what it is, but Marcus' wrongko is almost certainly sono; I've handled a lot of this wood, and grain and colour of Marcus' wrongko is very much sono, it is not stained.

Re the blade, I'm not at all sure it is a recent blade, from the photos I simply cannot tell, but the style of the carving does not resemble anything I've seen as recent production from Madura.

Marcus · 16th June 2016, 03:27 AM

Thanks for the interesting comments. I'll post more pictures when I receive the item, which won't be for a couple weeks because I will be traveling.

Jean · 17th June 2016, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, i'm sorry, but to my eyes the pics of the keris you have posted look nothing at all like Marcus' keris.

However, I have given my opinion, I have nothing to add to it, and we are all entitled to our own opinion.

EDIT

Sorry Jean, I misunderstood your post #7 I think.

Yes, the blade you show is very probably Madura.

The wrongko you show is not kayu sono, I don't know what it is, but Marcus' wrongko is almost certainly sono; I've handled a lot of this wood, and grain and colour of Marcus' wrongko is very much sono, it is not stained.

Re the blade, I'm not at all sure it is a recent blade, from the photos I simply cannot tell, but the style of the carving does not resemble anything I've seen as recent production from Madura.

Thank you Alan. The wood species on the top part of my wrongko seems to be purnama and the bottom part berore pelet, this is a common combination in Lombok. I attach the pic of another kojongan kris from Lombok with such wood combination on the scabbard, and a naga blade which looks original to me. Incidentally, one experienced collector reminded me that old naga blades are always wavy, what do you think?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 17th June 2016, 11:57 PM

Jean, kayu pelet is not a species of wood, it is a wood pattern. Any wood at all, from any tree at all can be pelet. The word pelet refers to the combination of light and dark patterns in the wood.

I do not know of any wood named purnama. The word itself has a sanscrit root and its only normal use that I know of is as "bulan purnama" : "full moon". It is also used as a man's name but not often.

If you are telling me that the gambar on the first scabbard you posted is "kayu purnama", I'm very sorry, but I must disagree. This wood is sono, but it is sono that has a small inclusion of sapwood, the light coloured wood, next to the gandar. The application of the word "purnama" to describe this wood is probably a little bit of poetic licence in likening the small area of white wood to a moon against a dark sky. Once again, we are talking about a wood pattern.

I have just asked 3 native speakers of Indonesian if they know of the word "purnama" used as an adjective or a stand alone noun, they do not, as with myself they can only come up with "bulan purnama". To me "kayu purnama" sounds very much like a dealer's invention.

The naga blade you show is certainly a very nicely made Balinese blade, but I'm sorry, from the pic cannot give any opinion on its age.

As for straight old blades never having a naga, this is not so, I have owned old Javanese and Madurese straight blades with a naga. However they were pretty inferior blades, and logically I would think that a naga should not appear in a straight blade --- but as I have said:- they do, but seldom.

16th June 2016, 12:01 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Jean, i'm sorry, but to my eyes the pics of the keris you have posted look nothing at all like Marcus' keris. However, I have given my opinion, I have nothing to add to it, and we are all entitled to our own opinion. EDIT Sorry Jean, I misunderstood your post #7 I think. Yes, the blade you show is very probably Madura. The wrongko you show is not kayu sono, I don't know what it is, but Marcus' wrongko is almost certainly sono; I've handled a lot of this wood, and grain and colour of Marcus' wrongko is very much sono, it is not stained. Re the blade, I'm not at all sure it is a recent blade, from the photos I simply cannot tell, but the style of the carving does not resemble anything I've seen as recent production from Madura. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 16th June 2016 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Additional comment

16th June 2016, 03:27 AM	#4
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	what ever it Thanks for the interesting comments. I'll post more pictures when I receive the item, which won't be for a couple weeks because I will be traveling.

15th June 2016, 03:12 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I have a distinct problem with this keris. If we consider the component parts we have a wewer that is very definitely Balinese and from post 1960. The sarung is a Balinese style, executed in what appears to be sono wood and I can see no indication at all that it is not of Balinese manufacture. The danganan is a Balinese style, but of comparatively recent manufacture, it may be Balinese, it may be a Madurese or Javanese copy, from the photo I cannot tell. The blade is a real puzzle. It is most definitely not a Balinese style, nor does the material have the characteristics of a Balinese blade, the finish of the surface is not typically Balinese, the manner in which the material has been welded is not typically Balinese, the pawakan is not typically Balinese, the carving at the gandhik is not typically Balinese. What makes this problem more difficult still is that nothing about this blade is typical of Madura blades made after 1980. Nor does it give the impression of Javanese workmanship. I believe we can confidently eliminate all other keris bearing societies as a possible source, with one exception: Lombok. Lombok is well known for some very peculiar keris, and this one is indeed very peculiar. I am not saying that this keris is Lombok, but I do think that Lombok is a more likely place of origin than any other.

17th June 2016, 11:57 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Jean, kayu pelet is not a species of wood, it is a wood pattern. Any wood at all, from any tree at all can be pelet. The word pelet refers to the combination of light and dark patterns in the wood. I do not know of any wood named purnama. The word itself has a sanscrit root and its only normal use that I know of is as "bulan purnama" : "full moon". It is also used as a man's name but not often. If you are telling me that the gambar on the first scabbard you posted is "kayu purnama", I'm very sorry, but I must disagree. This wood is sono, but it is sono that has a small inclusion of sapwood, the light coloured wood, next to the gandar. The application of the word "purnama" to describe this wood is probably a little bit of poetic licence in likening the small area of white wood to a moon against a dark sky. Once again, we are talking about a wood pattern. I have just asked 3 native speakers of Indonesian if they know of the word "purnama" used as an adjective or a stand alone noun, they do not, as with myself they can only come up with "bulan purnama". To me "kayu purnama" sounds very much like a dealer's invention. The naga blade you show is certainly a very nicely made Balinese blade, but I'm sorry, from the pic cannot give any opinion on its age. As for straight old blades never having a naga, this is not so, I have owned old Javanese and Madurese straight blades with a naga. However they were pretty inferior blades, and logically I would think that a naga should not appear in a straight blade --- but as I have said:- they do, but seldom.