French musket

JamesKelly · 23rd May 2016, 09:15 PM

OK, I erred. The PKELLY and standing bear do not have corrosion over the engraving. I would say this was a mid-2oth century addition As was the ramrod, using a 0. 235" steel rod. That is almost exactly 6mm (0.236"). In the USA standard small steel rods would be 6.35mm (0.250"). So the new ramrod was made in Europe, and it does appear that PKELLY and his bear are modern additions.
Right now the lock is partially disassembled in my basement. The rear lock bolt hole has an old bolt broken off in it. There is a new hole drilled and tapped for the current (rear) lock bolt. The stock is not drilled for the old lock bolt hole, but only for the more recent. The lock inlet appears to be cut for this particular lock.
As noted, the barrel is fastened to the stock with pins. There are no barrel bands, as one would expect least on the Model 1728.
The lock is round faced and the barrel half-octagon.
This description fits no standard French musket from 1717 on.
It does look vaguely like the 1680's gun shown on page 35, "The French Trade Gun in North America".
No body but me likes French here. Oh, well.
I did find one, and only one, marking, stamped inside the lock plate. Not clear to me what it is, I will have to experiment with lighting and maybe a smear of black paint to get a decent photo. Stay Tuned.

corrado26 · 24th May 2016, 02:09 PM

It would help to separate the barrel from the stock and eventally find some stamps/marks..........
corrado26

JamesKelly · 24th May 2016, 06:11 PM

Not ready to take the barrel out.
The lock recess looks like this was the original lock used. That is, the recess has not been recut.
There is a stamp on the inside of the lockplate. So far this is the only mark I have found on this musket.

I realize it does not match any standard French musket from Model 1717 on. 1717 was when the French more or less standardized their musket patterns.

Part octagon, part round barrels like on this musket were used on earlier guns.

My thought is that it was made some time between 1680 and 1720.

Well, any thoughts on what this lock mark might be?

fernando · 24th May 2016, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

... My thought is that it was made some time between 1680 and 1720...

So early, James ?

JamesKelly · 25th May 2016, 03:18 AM

Yeah, Fernando, that was stretching it

I think it French as the trigger guard and side plate look like what we borrowed from them after our revolution

It used a socket bayonet, so I imagine it should be post-1705 or so.

I think it is about the time that the French were more or less standardizing their military weapons. I have the impression this was a process not an immediate change. I suppose this musket is probably to no one's standard. It retains the octagon-round barrel, round-face lock & single bridle of earlier guns..

Leaving for Georgia (the US state) tomorrow morning. I'll look through another book or so later on next week. Not sure I will take the chance of removing the barrel. I have found that Old Stuff tends to break.

corrado26 · 25th May 2016, 07:40 AM

I think that the lock was made in the German town of SUHL, at least the marking on the inside is of SUHL origine. The tumbler is covered by a bridle what shows that this lock is far later as you assume, certainly not made about 1680! It would be really very helpful to know the markings of the barrel's underside
corrado26

Fernando K · 25th May 2016, 12:38 PM

Hello

Marcel Baldet in "Les Armes a Feu", brings a panoply, the Musee de la Armee, as a light rifle official and gentle-hommes cadets.

Fernando K

24th May 2016, 06:11 PM	#3
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Not ready to take the barrel out. The lock recess looks like this was the original lock used. That is, the recess has not been recut. There is a stamp on the inside of the lockplate. So far this is the only mark I have found on this musket. I realize it does not match any standard French musket from Model 1717 on. 1717 was when the French more or less standardized their musket patterns. Part octagon, part round barrels like on this musket were used on earlier guns. My thought is that it was made some time between 1680 and 1720. Well, any thoughts on what this lock mark might be? Attached Images

23rd May 2016, 09:15 PM	#1
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	OK, I erred. The PKELLY and standing bear do not have corrosion over the engraving. I would say this was a mid-2oth century addition As was the ramrod, using a 0. 235" steel rod. That is almost exactly 6mm (0.236"). In the USA standard small steel rods would be 6.35mm (0.250"). So the new ramrod was made in Europe, and it does appear that PKELLY and his bear are modern additions. Right now the lock is partially disassembled in my basement. The rear lock bolt hole has an old bolt broken off in it. There is a new hole drilled and tapped for the current (rear) lock bolt. The stock is not drilled for the old lock bolt hole, but only for the more recent. The lock inlet appears to be cut for this particular lock. As noted, the barrel is fastened to the stock with pins. There are no barrel bands, as one would expect least on the Model 1728. The lock is round faced and the barrel half-octagon. This description fits no standard French musket from 1717 on. It does look vaguely like the 1680's gun shown on page 35, "The French Trade Gun in North America". No body but me likes French here. Oh, well. I did find one, and only one, marking, stamped inside the lock plate. Not clear to me what it is, I will have to experiment with lighting and maybe a smear of black paint to get a decent photo. Stay Tuned.

24th May 2016, 02:09 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	It would help to separate the barrel from the stock and eventally find some stamps/marks.......... corrado26

25th May 2016, 03:18 AM	#5
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Yeah, Fernando, that was stretching it I think it French as the trigger guard and side plate look like what we borrowed from them after our revolution It used a socket bayonet, so I imagine it should be post-1705 or so. I think it is about the time that the French were more or less standardizing their military weapons. I have the impression this was a process not an immediate change. I suppose this musket is probably to no one's standard. It retains the octagon-round barrel, round-face lock & single bridle of earlier guns.. Leaving for Georgia (the US state) tomorrow morning. I'll look through another book or so later on next week. Not sure I will take the chance of removing the barrel. I have found that Old Stuff tends to break.

25th May 2016, 07:40 AM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	I think that the lock was made in the German town of SUHL, at least the marking on the inside is of SUHL origine. The tumbler is covered by a bridle what shows that this lock is far later as you assume, certainly not made about 1680! It would be really very helpful to know the markings of the barrel's underside corrado26

25th May 2016, 12:38 PM	#7
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello Marcel Baldet in "Les Armes a Feu", brings a panoply, the Musee de la Armee, as a light rifle official and gentle-hommes cadets. Fernando K