Destroying artwork

estcrh · 19th May 2016, 05:19 AM

http://www.internationalivorysociety.org/
Godfrey Harris, chair of the International Ivory Society formed to challenge strict laws on ivory moving through the Californian legislature, has taken exception to the language used in the proposal.

“USFWS has made ivory sound like a toxic substance requiring special handling by bomb disposal squads. If you didn’t know better, you would think that the next generation of IEDs are being disguised in old ivory billiard balls.”

http://www.ivoryeducationinstitute.org/
IVORY’S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE PAST AND ITS SIGNIFICANCE IN THE FUTURE ECLIPSE ANY UNREASONABLE OR INEFFECTIVE RESTRAINTS ON ITS TRADE OR MOVEMENT.

A. G. Maisey · 19th May 2016, 06:12 AM

Thank you for your ideas on crime and punishment Kai.

I've already used far too much space in this thread, so I'm going to make this post as direct as possible.

1) if elephants are truly in danger of extinction, and if it has been determined that this should not be permitted to occur under any circumstances, then the measures taken to prevent the extinction of elephants should be absolute measures. If this means removing all human presence from , let us say, Kenya, then so be it. Give Kenya back to the elephants.

2) however, if this supposed extinction of elephants is merely the quasi political invention of those people who treasure the "rights" of animals, the "rights" of trees, and the "rights" those human beings who behave in a manner contrary to nature and to the established belief systems that form the foundations of Western Societies, and of many other societies, then the measures taken to remove this plague, this very visitation of Satan Himself from our presence must be absolute. If this requires a mass extinction of these minions of the Evil One, then so be it.

3) but if the truth of the matter lays somewhere between these two extremes then those who most strongly support the concept of elephant preservation must contribute the vast sums of money, and the armies of adequately trained personnel to ensure this preservation.

4) perhaps after the elephants have been saved, we may be able to give some thought to how we can save our own societies, and our long established traditional values from the perversion of the Grand Corruptors who hide in our midst.

drac2k · 19th May 2016, 12:09 PM

So we should not institute capital punishment to deter murder because it doesn't work, but we should destroy all ivory to save the elephants because this will work and we should save societies after we save the animals.
Is this the premise of your argument or did I misunderstand?

kronckew · 19th May 2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

So we should not institute capital punishment to deter murder because it doesn't work, but we should destroy all ivory to save the elephants because this will work and we should save societies after we save the animals.
Is this the premise of your argument or did I misunderstand?

but it DOES work. i've not heard of a single murderer who was executed ever doing it again. sure deters him & saves the state having to support him for decades at huge costs to us. i have however heard of murderers released on parole from life sentences who did kill, and soon after he was released. one who killed someone, a stranger at a bus stop, while waiting for the bus to take him away from the prison comes to mind. there are degrees of murder, some justified, some crimes of passion by basically good people, but there are some people who are just evil and eliminating them is best. does it deter others from copying - maybe not. we never hear about the ones it did deter based on someone else's execution, only the ones it did not. kinda skews the stats. and the liberals forcing the state thru endless apeals to make those who are on death row suffer for decades before executing them is cruel and unusual. arrest them on a monday, try them on tues., appeals on wed. and/or thu. and public execution on friday at noon works for me. justice must be swift and must be seen to have been done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Though interesting to some ...may I suggest that this thread be moved to Miscellaneous since the so called Destruction of Artwork is not an ethnographic weapon...but is allowable in terms of that Forum...not this one.

sounds like a plan. i agree. too generic and emotive.

19th May 2016, 05:19 AM	#1
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	http://www.internationalivorysociety.org/ Godfrey Harris, chair of the International Ivory Society formed to challenge strict laws on ivory moving through the Californian legislature, has taken exception to the language used in the proposal. “USFWS has made ivory sound like a toxic substance requiring special handling by bomb disposal squads. If you didn’t know better, you would think that the next generation of IEDs are being disguised in old ivory billiard balls.” http://www.ivoryeducationinstitute.org/ IVORY’S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE PAST AND ITS SIGNIFICANCE IN THE FUTURE ECLIPSE ANY UNREASONABLE OR INEFFECTIVE RESTRAINTS ON ITS TRADE OR MOVEMENT.

19th May 2016, 06:12 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Thank you for your ideas on crime and punishment Kai. I've already used far too much space in this thread, so I'm going to make this post as direct as possible. 1) if elephants are truly in danger of extinction, and if it has been determined that this should not be permitted to occur under any circumstances, then the measures taken to prevent the extinction of elephants should be absolute measures. If this means removing all human presence from , let us say, Kenya, then so be it. Give Kenya back to the elephants. 2) however, if this supposed extinction of elephants is merely the quasi political invention of those people who treasure the "rights" of animals, the "rights" of trees, and the "rights" those human beings who behave in a manner contrary to nature and to the established belief systems that form the foundations of Western Societies, and of many other societies, then the measures taken to remove this plague, this very visitation of Satan Himself from our presence must be absolute. If this requires a mass extinction of these minions of the Evil One, then so be it. 3) but if the truth of the matter lays somewhere between these two extremes then those who most strongly support the concept of elephant preservation must contribute the vast sums of money, and the armies of adequately trained personnel to ensure this preservation. 4) perhaps after the elephants have been saved, we may be able to give some thought to how we can save our own societies, and our long established traditional values from the perversion of the Grand Corruptors who hide in our midst.

19th May 2016, 12:09 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,269	So we should not institute capital punishment to deter murder because it doesn't work, but we should destroy all ivory to save the elephants because this will work and we should save societies after we save the animals. Is this the premise of your argument or did I misunderstand?