guardless nimcha

kahnjar1 · 18th April 2016, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I think these very rugged and simple type weapons, with all the inherent flaws and crude demeanor are unique in the kind of mysterious charm they hold. The 'tribal' classification I believe may be well applied and quite possibly denoting Bedouin types of sabre from regions in Sinai and Negev. It seems we have had numbers of these rugged variations over the years which have fallen collectively into this category. Lofty would probably best confirm this and perhaps any particular tribal connections if applicable.

The horn grip roughly approximating the well known 'nimcha' style seems clearly just that rather than a dismantled hilt from one. The blade indeed does seem to be of European style in the fashion of blades found on many in various Yemeni swords. I am inclined to agree that this is probably native forged and dramatically repofiled, the dentated arcs are meant to simulate the 'sickle marks' but obviously not properly formed or placed.

The images posted by Stu are great, and well display some of the key variations of swords known to appear in Yemeni context .

1. One of the swords with the hilt once widely held to be of Zanzibar, but as shown has proven to be of a type with variant ring loop on the guard, and often found in Yemen, and while some associations may involve Zanzibar it is not a localized form from there.

2. This one is great! and from 2009 (TVV), these blades were usually straight (this one apparently altered) and of a form known from Solingen exporter F. W. Holler....in this case the ricasso block marked with MK enclosed in Seal of Solomon, adopted in Ethiopia c. 1874. The MK is believed to M Kevorkoff & Co. Harrar (Ethiopia) one of the number of Armenian merchants importing arms for Emperor Menelik II in the 1890s .
The lozenges on the hilt motif is unclear, but these diamond shapes popular on many Sudanese hilts around turn of century, usually in linear configuration.

3 . This seems to resemble one of the unusually modern looking espada ancha type swords with an older cavalry blade. Uncertain on attribution.

4. Indeed a Yemeni sword, the karabela style hilt (often termed 'hawks head' in Arabian parlance), is well known there and usually had shorter sabre blades, with the neck of the grip wire wrapped. The blade is of European form usually seen in the Red Sea sphere and found on kaskara. In this case, the rounded tip suggests it may have at some point been in the Omani sphere and perhaps either intended for or actually in one of the sa'if often referred to as 'kattara'.
The markings are intended to represent European, probably the celestial grouping of Schimmelbusch & Kirshbaum of Solingen who were suppliers of blades c. 1802-91. The European groupings usually have a single moon and six stars or at times a comet with stars.
This combination has been known around in these regions for some time and the sequence and configurations seem to have wide variation.

In any case, this particular sword as noted does seem to have Arab inclination but it would be hard to say whether to the Bedouin attribution or more broadly other use in Yemeni context as with other examples shown.
The Spanish colonial connection is more tenuous, but certainly viable as the features of these 'nimcha' style hilts was quite present in many of their innovations and this simple context sword may well have been intended for machete type use in the tropical climes of their colonies in Central America and Caribbean.

Hi Jim and thanks for the concise reply.
You are right about #2 in as much as it was originally discussed by, and was originally owned by Teodor. At the time we discussed at length re the blade being reshaped. If I remember correctly, agreement was reached that it has always been curved, as the decoration along the trough of twin fullers is NOT stretched or distorted in one fuller as it would be if the blade had been later curved. Decoration in BOTH fullers match exactly. I have not got on file a full length pic of the decoration but have attached one showing the beginning of the decoration at the hilt end. You can see that it is quite definite here, as it is along the whole blade, so any distortion would be clear to see. Also a pic attached showing the Lion of Judea mark which is common on (particularly) Ethiopian blades.
It must be remembered here that Wilkinson exported MANY bare blades to the Middle East, as did various Solingen makers, and these were locally mounted.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 18th April 2016, 11:11 PM

Thanks Stu, for the clarification on that blade issue. I must admit that the idea of straightening or curving these blades was kind of an issue for me....the big question......why? As seen with the karabela hilt (usually with short blade curved) it was no issue to mount with a long broadsword blade.
On many Algerian nimchas you will see them mounted with full size straight blades often and varying with backsword and broadsword blades....and it seems the apparent indifference carries throughout these regions.

On the MK with Star of Solomon surround, it was once suggested that this was connected to the Wilkinson swords often exported to Abyssinia, however that is only a superficial assumption as the Star was like the Lion of Judah, part of Ethiopian symbolism of the times.

Absolutely right, Wilkinson indeed sent many blades to Ethiopia toward the end of the century, in fact into the 1930s (I have one of the catalogues), but these were marked. The unmarked were likely their subcontractors but hard to say. In the case of Solingen, they were known to produce 'blanks' as the overbuilding of the industry during the Franco-Prussian war created huge competition for business as the war ended as did demand.

Whatever the case, the volume of blades into the Red Sea trade, as well as many entrepots in North Africa, East Africa and Arabia built huge stockpiles of blades.

Excellent examples....I really like these swords!!!!

ariel · 19th April 2016, 12:35 AM

These swords are so primitive and crude, such low quality and so ugly...
I have no idea why do I love them so much.... :-))))))

Jim McDougall · 19th April 2016, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

These swords are so primitive and crude, such low quality and so ugly...
I have no idea why do I love them so much.... :-))))))

They're kinda the 'rat rods' of the sword world!!!

kahnjar1 · 19th April 2016, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

These swords are so primitive and crude, such low quality and so ugly...
I have no idea why do I love them so much.... :-))))))

Obviously not too primitive or they would not exist still. Remember that the modern plethora of arms did not exist in the era these would have been made. Good supply would only have been available to those tribes which supported the current Rulers/Colonial Powers.
Look at the crude weapons and firearms used by the various resistance fighters during WW2........not too primitive to help win a war against a foe which had VERY good quality arms and armour!!

kronckew · 19th April 2016, 09:16 AM

may be crude, but not prissy overdecorated wall hanging 'look at me' decoraters. functional killers meant to be used. simple, rough around the edges, beautiful and deadly like a jaguar. when things go bump in the night, these are the ones you turn to.

ariel · 19th April 2016, 04:22 PM

Well, guys, I was being facetious :-)

They ARE simple and crude in comparison with refined Persian shamshirs or Ottoman yataghans, but they are brutal, minimalistically-functional and shabbily decorated. They are serious fighting instruments, not wall hangers.
Love them.
I have about half a dozen of them and need more. Just in case of zombie invasion:-)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 19th April 2016, 07:09 PM

Salaams all... Notwithstanding the project sword at #1. What we have here are Yemeni rehilts ... These are made from blades imported from Ethiopia and rehilted in Sanaa. The tendency was to remove the Rhino hilts from these and re use them on Jambia. However not all Ethiopian blades had hilts and the trade was therefor in bulk inter souk between Ethiopian dealers and the Sanaa market traders who once they were re hilted either sold them in the souk to tourists or because there is no tourist trade there now...war.... these went on the regional souk network turning up in Muscat, Muttrah and Sharjah as well as Salalah. There is some evidence that some straight blades were altered to curved...

The bulk of blades were and are... (it still goes on today) ...European . The backyard engineering, rough and ready hilt production, should not confuse the issue as to origin. These weapons do not appear in Butins chart...why? They are relatively recent...simple, rough, cheap, backyard workshop knock ups...from Sanaa.

They are interesting since they used to be complete fighting weapons with Rhino Hilts... and now traded inter souk as tourist items... having actually been combat swords from Ethiopia with reasonable and effective European blades..Some are fitted up with cheap pot metal and traded as original ancient swords...Rather a fictional ending to what were famous blades.

For the Rhino hilt probably originally on these Ethiopian blades see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Gurade

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 · 19th April 2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams all... Notwithstanding the project sword at #1. What we have here are Yemeni rehilts ... These are made from blades imported from Ethiopia and rehilted in Sanaa. The tendency was to remove the Rhino hilts from these and re use them on Jambia. However not all Ethiopian blades had hilts and the trade was therefor in bulk inter souk between Ethiopian dealers and the Sanaa market traders who once they were re hilted either sold them in the souk to tourists or because there is no tourist trade there now...war.... these went on the regional souk network turning up in Muscat, Muttrah and Sharjah as well as Salalah. There is some evidence that some straight blades were altered to curved...

The bulk of blades were and are... (it still goes on today) ...European . The backyard engineering, rough and ready hilt production, should not confuse the issue as to origin. These weapons do not appear in Butins chart...why? They are relatively recent...simple, rough, cheap, backyard workshop knock ups...from Sanaa.

They are interesting since they used to be complete fighting weapons with Rhino Hilts... and now traded inter souk as tourist items... having actually been combat swords from Ethiopia with reasonable and effective European blades..Some are fitted up with cheap pot metal and traded as original ancient swords...Rather a fictional ending to what were famous blades.

For the Rhino hilt probably originally on these Ethiopian blades see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Gurade

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

You are of course entitled to your opinion as to where these originated, but it would be useful to have some hard evidence as backup. None of these are tourist items. They all predate tourism as we know it.
The only blade shown here which is Ethiopian is #2 which is discussed above as maybe being reshaped. This is the only one which would MAYBE fit with your comment that originally it had a Rhino hilt.

Jim McDougall · 19th April 2016, 07:10 PM

Guys, I totally understood what Ariel meant. I often use the term 'ersatz'.
Dicitionary references;
ERSATZ: ....made or used as a substitute, typically an inferior one...
most commonly having 'wartime' connotations,

In my early days of collecting I could not afford the often beautiful pieces being bought by more seasoned collectors, and often got the worn, darkly patinated and sometimes damaged examples typically passed over.
They were often derisively referred to as 'a dogs dinner' (please animal activists no offense meant, it was the phrase used).

However, I knew these were genuinely used, and often they were made up of often incongruent components, but clearly effectively constructed. One of my favorite fields was Spanish Colonial, and the weapons out of these often remote frontier regions were sometimes even bizarre.
One cut down 'dragoon' blade (Spanish motto) had a cast brass briquette hilt and a three bar cavalry guard, all three efficiently melded together.

Obviously this was the makeshift work of some frontier blacksmith using broken parts in an effort to produce a serviceable weapon.

For those of us intrigued by the deep history often held in these outwardly unusual and incongruently assembled weapons, these are pure treasure!
The term 'effective' is key, and while far from the 'cookie cutter' examples found in references, these, while not 'pretty'...certainly were capable of accomplishing their task.

An entire book could be written on the many forms of 'ersatz' weapons used throughout history. Remember, even in the medieval times and battles focused on armored knights and magnificently armed nobles and those of standing....the rank and file were often peasants using all manner of tools and implements as their weapons. Many weapons indeed evolved out of such implements i.e. bill hooks etc.

19th April 2016, 07:09 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all... Notwithstanding the project sword at #1. What we have here are Yemeni rehilts ... These are made from blades imported from Ethiopia and rehilted in Sanaa. The tendency was to remove the Rhino hilts from these and re use them on Jambia. However not all Ethiopian blades had hilts and the trade was therefor in bulk inter souk between Ethiopian dealers and the Sanaa market traders who once they were re hilted either sold them in the souk to tourists or because there is no tourist trade there now...war.... these went on the regional souk network turning up in Muscat, Muttrah and Sharjah as well as Salalah. There is some evidence that some straight blades were altered to curved... The bulk of blades were and are... (it still goes on today) ...European . The backyard engineering, rough and ready hilt production, should not confuse the issue as to origin. These weapons do not appear in Butins chart...why? They are relatively recent...simple, rough, cheap, backyard workshop knock ups...from Sanaa. They are interesting since they used to be complete fighting weapons with Rhino Hilts... and now traded inter souk as tourist items... having actually been combat swords from Ethiopia with reasonable and effective European blades..Some are fitted up with cheap pot metal and traded as original ancient swords...Rather a fictional ending to what were famous blades. For the Rhino hilt probably originally on these Ethiopian blades see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Gurade Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 19th April 2016 at 07:35 PM.

18th April 2016, 11:11 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Thanks Stu, for the clarification on that blade issue. I must admit that the idea of straightening or curving these blades was kind of an issue for me....the big question......why? As seen with the karabela hilt (usually with short blade curved) it was no issue to mount with a long broadsword blade. On many Algerian nimchas you will see them mounted with full size straight blades often and varying with backsword and broadsword blades....and it seems the apparent indifference carries throughout these regions. On the MK with Star of Solomon surround, it was once suggested that this was connected to the Wilkinson swords often exported to Abyssinia, however that is only a superficial assumption as the Star was like the Lion of Judah, part of Ethiopian symbolism of the times. Absolutely right, Wilkinson indeed sent many blades to Ethiopia toward the end of the century, in fact into the 1930s (I have one of the catalogues), but these were marked. The unmarked were likely their subcontractors but hard to say. In the case of Solingen, they were known to produce 'blanks' as the overbuilding of the industry during the Franco-Prussian war created huge competition for business as the war ended as did demand. Whatever the case, the volume of blades into the Red Sea trade, as well as many entrepots in North Africa, East Africa and Arabia built huge stockpiles of blades. Excellent examples....I really like these swords!!!!

19th April 2016, 12:35 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	These swords are so primitive and crude, such low quality and so ugly... I have no idea why do I love them so much.... :-))))))

19th April 2016, 09:16 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	may be crude, but not prissy overdecorated wall hanging 'look at me' decoraters. functional killers meant to be used. simple, rough around the edges, beautiful and deadly like a jaguar. when things go bump in the night, these are the ones you turn to.

19th April 2016, 04:22 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, guys, I was being facetious :-) They ARE simple and crude in comparison with refined Persian shamshirs or Ottoman yataghans, but they are brutal, minimalistically-functional and shabbily decorated. They are serious fighting instruments, not wall hangers. Love them. I have about half a dozen of them and need more. Just in case of zombie invasion:-)

19th April 2016, 07:10 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Guys, I totally understood what Ariel meant. I often use the term 'ersatz'. Dicitionary references; ERSATZ: ....made or used as a substitute, typically an inferior one... most commonly having 'wartime' connotations, In my early days of collecting I could not afford the often beautiful pieces being bought by more seasoned collectors, and often got the worn, darkly patinated and sometimes damaged examples typically passed over. They were often derisively referred to as 'a dogs dinner' (please animal activists no offense meant, it was the phrase used). However, I knew these were genuinely used, and often they were made up of often incongruent components, but clearly effectively constructed. One of my favorite fields was Spanish Colonial, and the weapons out of these often remote frontier regions were sometimes even bizarre. One cut down 'dragoon' blade (Spanish motto) had a cast brass briquette hilt and a three bar cavalry guard, all three efficiently melded together. Obviously this was the makeshift work of some frontier blacksmith using broken parts in an effort to produce a serviceable weapon. For those of us intrigued by the deep history often held in these outwardly unusual and incongruently assembled weapons, these are pure treasure! The term 'effective' is key, and while far from the 'cookie cutter' examples found in references, these, while not 'pretty'...certainly were capable of accomplishing their task. An entire book could be written on the many forms of 'ersatz' weapons used throughout history. Remember, even in the medieval times and battles focused on armored knights and magnificently armed nobles and those of standing....the rank and file were often peasants using all manner of tools and implements as their weapons. Many weapons indeed evolved out of such implements i.e. bill hooks etc.