Tannenberg handgonne

Roland_M · 5th April 2016, 03:38 PM

The data concerning the caliber reaches from 14,3mm to 17,9mm at the muzzle and from 14,6 to 16,8mm before the chamber. The length of the flight (the length of the bullet way) is between 154 and 165mm. The diameter of the chamber is from 9,0 to 15,0mm, the powder volume from 7,2 to 13,8cm³.
The barrel was casted from bronze. Flight and chamber are not exactly arranged around the length axis of the pipe.
The surface of the rifle shows some rough traces from a file.
The surfaces are not really symmetrically.
The inside of the barrel was smoothed after casting.
Powder chamber and flight are separated from each other by a slightly contraction.
The cavity around the touch hole was originally no powder pan and was formed during usage by burning and corrosion.
Altogether the rifle seems to be quite careless made.

Total length : 320,0 mm
Caliber: 15,16 mm (according to Wlassaty: 17,2–17,9)
Length of the barrel: 286,4 mm max.
Length of soul (bullet way): 168,4 mm
Powder chamber only: 118,0 mm
Weight: 1.235 g

Andi · 5th April 2016, 08:35 PM

Oh you found my article on the Thannenberg handgonne on our webpage. I am really not sure which data are the correct ones or at least which will be the most reliable. Normally thinking they should be from Germanisches Nationalmuseum, but it may be possible that the Museum has not re examined the gonne for the data posted on their homepage. So they have not specified where the data for the caliber has been taken (at the nozzel or on the narrowes point right before the chamber?). Many of the differing measurements mentioned in several scientific articles may result from an incorrect conversion of pre metric lenght units stated in the first publication from Hefner, Wolf (1850). Actually the detailed shape and measures of the flight and chamber are still not demermined. Peter Dannecker and Joachim von Wlassaty tried to clarify the data with the Museum in 1980, but without success - and it is still unclear.

Spiridonov · 6th April 2016, 04:22 PM

Tanks for all who tried to help me. I've contacted with Germanischen Nationalmuseums, Nürnberg and got following answer:

Museum: "Dear Alexander, as the Tannenberg rifle is handmade, it isn't that easy to measure. The length differs between 318 and 320 mm, the diameter of the chamber between 15,9 up to 20 mm. The shape in general is cylindrical, but is has a partition in the middle. Please find a photo attached.
ВТ 19:39"

Spiridonov: "Thank You. So, As I understand the real shape inside hangonne is like on this picture variant A but not B"

Museum: "Yes, the shape inside the Tannenberg handgonne is closer to version A than version B. "

Paddy T. · 29th July 2018, 09:46 PM

The design of the chamber in picture "B" is definitely wrong and has already been contradicted in an article from the museum in the early 20th century. They´ve done a new 3D-computer-analysis of the barrel a few years ago, but unfortunatelly the results have not been published until now.

http://objektkatalog.gnm.de/objekt/W2034

Maybe it´s the best idea to pick up the measurements given by the museum. They can be found in one of the latest publications containing the oldest clearly datable handguns from Tannenberg, too - the PhD thesis of W. Tittmann (Bochum 2015).

5th April 2016, 08:35 PM	#2
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Oh you found my article on the Thannenberg handgonne on our webpage. I am really not sure which data are the correct ones or at least which will be the most reliable. Normally thinking they should be from Germanisches Nationalmuseum, but it may be possible that the Museum has not re examined the gonne for the data posted on their homepage. So they have not specified where the data for the caliber has been taken (at the nozzel or on the narrowes point right before the chamber?). Many of the differing measurements mentioned in several scientific articles may result from an incorrect conversion of pre metric lenght units stated in the first publication from Hefner, Wolf (1850). Actually the detailed shape and measures of the flight and chamber are still not demermined. Peter Dannecker and Joachim von Wlassaty tried to clarify the data with the Museum in 1980, but without success - and it is still unclear. Last edited by Andi; 5th April 2016 at 08:56 PM.

6th April 2016, 04:22 PM	#3
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	Tanks for all who tried to help me. I've contacted with Germanischen Nationalmuseums, Nürnberg and got following answer: Museum: "Dear Alexander, as the Tannenberg rifle is handmade, it isn't that easy to measure. The length differs between 318 and 320 mm, the diameter of the chamber between 15,9 up to 20 mm. The shape in general is cylindrical, but is has a partition in the middle. Please find a photo attached. ВТ 19:39" Spiridonov: "Thank You. So, As I understand the real shape inside hangonne is like on this picture variant A but not B" Museum: "Yes, the shape inside the Tannenberg handgonne is closer to version A than version B. " Attached Images

5th April 2016, 03:38 PM	#1
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	The data concerning the caliber reaches from 14,3mm to 17,9mm at the muzzle and from 14,6 to 16,8mm before the chamber. The length of the flight (the length of the bullet way) is between 154 and 165mm. The diameter of the chamber is from 9,0 to 15,0mm, the powder volume from 7,2 to 13,8cm³. The barrel was casted from bronze. Flight and chamber are not exactly arranged around the length axis of the pipe. The surface of the rifle shows some rough traces from a file. The surfaces are not really symmetrically. The inside of the barrel was smoothed after casting. Powder chamber and flight are separated from each other by a slightly contraction. The cavity around the touch hole was originally no powder pan and was formed during usage by burning and corrosion. Altogether the rifle seems to be quite careless made. Total length : 320,0 mm Caliber: 15,16 mm (according to Wlassaty: 17,2–17,9) Length of the barrel: 286,4 mm max. Length of soul (bullet way): 168,4 mm Powder chamber only: 118,0 mm Weight: 1.235 g

29th July 2018, 09:46 PM	#4
Paddy T. Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 13	The design of the chamber in picture "B" is definitely wrong and has already been contradicted in an article from the museum in the early 20th century. They´ve done a new 3D-computer-analysis of the barrel a few years ago, but unfortunatelly the results have not been published until now. http://objektkatalog.gnm.de/objekt/W2034 Maybe it´s the best idea to pick up the measurements given by the museum. They can be found in one of the latest publications containing the oldest clearly datable handguns from Tannenberg, too - the PhD thesis of W. Tittmann (Bochum 2015).