mongolian bulu throwing club?

ausjulius · 4th April 2016, 05:39 AM

thanks... and you know it truly panned out how i described!!..
actually it started with be looking at some plains indians throwing sticks and then that brought back the bhutan club related memory..

now ive got to get some examples of these throwing clubs some how!!!
i wounder how far the weighted one with the lead ball on in a leather strap goes.. id have though it would fly rather poorly.. ??

im going to try to get one of these some how..

there is a russian from china -from khokh khot, inner mongolia living not far from here maybe i will ask if hes seen such a item.. .

Tim Simmons · 4th April 2016, 02:55 PM

Very interesting. Wanting to add something to this thread I am adding some Native American throwing sticks with the text from "Indian & Eskimo Artifacts of North America, Charles Miles 1967 Bonanza Books"

Rabbit sticks of boomerang type (but not returning) (1.60) top to bottom, three historic-period Southwest types, two with boomerang curves and one (maybe a loom batten) with propeller twist; and three prehistoric types, two grooved, Basket-maker types and a California stick from a San Bernardino County cave; (1.61) close-ups of two historic rabbit stick handles, Navaho and Hopi, and two prehistoric Basketmaker grooved types (Note repair reinforcements of sinew, and wire lashing.)
Rabbit sticks were thrown with the inside curve to the victim and their shapes caused them to bounce and jump instead of sliding. The Australian returning sticks united curve, propeller twist, and cambered cross sections to achieve these properties.

I have added the text as written. When the author say pre-historic he means pre white settlement rather than earlier. Unless he has made a mistake about the one with wire on the repair. African throwing sticks are much more dramatic in form. Hopefully more will be added.

blue lander · 4th April 2016, 05:15 PM

Interesting! I showed your links to some Mongolians, none of them had ever heard of it. Inner Mongolia and Outer Mongolia are inhabited by different tribes, perhaps only the ones in Inner Mongolia used these clubs.

blue lander · 6th April 2016, 12:55 AM

I showed them to my Mongolian wife, she has heard of them but never saw them used. She thinks they're called tsuihayah but she's not sure on the spelling. Nothing comes up if you google it.

Timo Nieminen · 9th April 2016, 12:41 AM

Yet another region where boomerangs have been used! Not just Australia, India, Egypt/Ethiopia, and North America, but also Mongolia. (Does anybody has further additions to the list?

Some more boomerang stuff:
Pitt Rivers and the boomerang: http://england.prm.ox.ac.uk/englishn...echnology.html
Indian steel boomerang: http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=558

ausjulius · 16th April 2016, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

Yet another region where boomerangs have been used! Not just Australia, India, Egypt/Ethiopia, and North America, but also Mongolia. (Does anybody has further additions to the list?

Some more boomerang stuff:
Pitt Rivers and the boomerang: http://england.prm.ox.ac.uk/englishn...echnology.html
Indian steel boomerang: http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=558

actual boomerang like weapons
the maori had a flat throwing club long and like a propeller , named hoeroa,
these were weapons though large and of wood or whale bone. this weapon is throing like a boomerang.

blue lander · 18th April 2016, 02:25 PM

I showed the pictures to another group of older Mongolians - they said the sticks were Chinese and the people throwing them were Chinese too even though there's a wall scroll of Genghis Khan in the background of one of the pictures.

Many Outer Mongolians don't consider Inner Mongolians to be "real" Mongolian because they're culturally Chinese, maybe that's what they meant. It's also very well possible any memory of the sport was lost during Soviet times.

ausjulius · 16th April 2016, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

I showed them to my Mongolian wife, she has heard of them but never saw them used. She thinks they're called tsuihayah but she's not sure on the spelling. Nothing comes up if you google it.

yeah there must be a khalkha name for them for sure (khalkha is the language use don most of the mongolian internetz.. or buryat)... even if they didnt use them for 300 years or so its like we still have a word for a halberd.. even though we havent used them in along time..
but it depends on what ethnic group your wife is from . maybe ask her to write it in cyrillic khalkha there might be something on the net???
anyway if i cant get one of thee ill try to make one especially with the weighted ball. im curious how it flys.

ausjulius · 16th April 2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

Interesting! I showed your links to some Mongolians, none of them had ever heard of it. Inner Mongolia and Outer Mongolia are inhabited by different tribes, perhaps only the ones in Inner Mongolia used these clubs.

yes in mongolia they dont have these for sure.. i mentioned i asked a mongolian friend well versed in these things and he said a snaphaunce style flintlock of local make in many styles and sizes had been used since the 17th or 18th century or there about for just about all purposes of hunting.
also Mongolians from the mongolian republic are not so familiar with bows for hunting either and seems to have stopped using them a long time ago for anything but sport.. .
it seems they accepted firearms quite rapidly probably due to a long although minimal contact with russians.. (probably explained why outer mongolian firearms are much superior to tibetian.. chinese ect rather more crude matchlocks... and that inner mongolia also matchlocks seem to have been common too.. well into the 20th century )
while inner mongolia bows remained popular right until the 20th century, they still have many bow makers there,
im sure these throwing sticks existed in mongolia at some time as well but it must have been a long time ago..

what im wondering is if there is some other ethnic minorities in the PRC that have other forms of throwing club like this .. maybe tibet or other isolated areas where more reliable modern firearms didnt enter till the 20 century..

come to think of it .. ive never seen a papuan throwing club...

about african throwing clubs ... the southern sudanese ones seem to be by far the best and most nicely made..

4th April 2016, 02:55 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Very interesting. Wanting to add something to this thread I am adding some Native American throwing sticks with the text from "Indian & Eskimo Artifacts of North America, Charles Miles 1967 Bonanza Books" Rabbit sticks of boomerang type (but not returning) (1.60) top to bottom, three historic-period Southwest types, two with boomerang curves and one (maybe a loom batten) with propeller twist; and three prehistoric types, two grooved, Basket-maker types and a California stick from a San Bernardino County cave; (1.61) close-ups of two historic rabbit stick handles, Navaho and Hopi, and two prehistoric Basketmaker grooved types (Note repair reinforcements of sinew, and wire lashing.) Rabbit sticks were thrown with the inside curve to the victim and their shapes caused them to bounce and jump instead of sliding. The Australian returning sticks united curve, propeller twist, and cambered cross sections to achieve these properties. I have added the text as written. When the author say pre-historic he means pre white settlement rather than earlier. Unless he has made a mistake about the one with wire on the repair. African throwing sticks are much more dramatic in form. Hopefully more will be added. Attached Images

4th April 2016, 05:39 AM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 446	thanks... and you know it truly panned out how i described!!.. actually it started with be looking at some plains indians throwing sticks and then that brought back the bhutan club related memory.. now ive got to get some examples of these throwing clubs some how!!! i wounder how far the weighted one with the lead ball on in a leather strap goes.. id have though it would fly rather poorly.. ?? im going to try to get one of these some how.. there is a russian from china -from khokh khot, inner mongolia living not far from here maybe i will ask if hes seen such a item.. .

4th April 2016, 05:15 PM	#3
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Interesting! I showed your links to some Mongolians, none of them had ever heard of it. Inner Mongolia and Outer Mongolia are inhabited by different tribes, perhaps only the ones in Inner Mongolia used these clubs.

6th April 2016, 12:55 AM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I showed them to my Mongolian wife, she has heard of them but never saw them used. She thinks they're called tsuihayah but she's not sure on the spelling. Nothing comes up if you google it.

9th April 2016, 12:41 AM	#5
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Yet another region where boomerangs have been used! Not just Australia, India, Egypt/Ethiopia, and North America, but also Mongolia. (Does anybody has further additions to the list? Some more boomerang stuff: Pitt Rivers and the boomerang: http://england.prm.ox.ac.uk/englishn...echnology.html Indian steel boomerang: http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=558

18th April 2016, 02:25 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I showed the pictures to another group of older Mongolians - they said the sticks were Chinese and the people throwing them were Chinese too even though there's a wall scroll of Genghis Khan in the background of one of the pictures. Many Outer Mongolians don't consider Inner Mongolians to be "real" Mongolian because they're culturally Chinese, maybe that's what they meant. It's also very well possible any memory of the sport was lost during Soviet times.