Khanda sword

Ken Maddock · 17th March 2016, 11:03 PM

Hi
Thanks for the replies
Yes
There is a hole in the fretting with a rivet which seems to be holding the fretting to the blade
Yes there is a ridge on the blade
It seems to me to be a working blade but maybe a tourist item, this I do not
know
If any more photos would help it is no problem
Cheers
Ken

TVV · 17th March 2016, 11:23 PM

I believe what Ariel was looking for would be a hole under the langets.

Jim McDougall · 18th March 2016, 02:57 AM

Interesting conundrum.
Obviously the hilt is a reasonably modern tulwar type (relatively) and could be 19th century Rajasthan product. Khanda blades are of course from centuries earlier into medieval period. While there seems to be good age patination on the blade, it is hard to guage from photos, and the bright spots are of concern for metal of such presumed age.

The blade itself seems rather 'shapeless' and rudimentary, but I would point out that khanda blades of early times, though often flat, were also often with central ridge ("Hindu Arms & Ritual", Elgood. p.81-82, fig. 8.11).
The plates running along the edges were as much for added weight to downward blows as for strength, and the shorter for grasping of blade if required.
The usual hilt on these was of course the basket type hilt with the long stem extending to grip as well.

In most cases on authentic khanda there were bolsters (trunking) extending down the forte and riveted to the blade (as mentioned by Ariel).

The blade edge plates on this seem rudimentary and lack the usual openwork or piercings of most examples.

While always trying to be optimistic, this example seems somewhat off center though hard to say from photos, the incongruent use of the tulwar hilt notwithstanding....and may have been intended for ceremonial or votive use. It does not seem close enough stylistically for a souvenier or 'collectible'.

Ken Maddock · 18th March 2016, 08:53 AM

Thanks
Gentlemen for your information
Some answers
There is no rivet holding the handle to the blade, it seems to be entirely held in by resin
There are no bright spots of metal on the blade, the white bits are white paint, there are more spots of other colours here and there.
I purchased at an auction in Ireland so no story with the sword.

The blade length is quiet short at just over two foot but has a hefty weight to it.
I have handled and owned a fair amount of similar items so I do think it is a fighting item but I have been wrong many times
I will report back with a weight when I get to a scales
Thanks
Ken

Mercenary · 18th March 2016, 11:20 AM

On the most part of Indian painting the khandas had tulwar-type handle.
I like this item. Real sword.

ariel · 18th March 2016, 04:55 PM

If there is no rivet hole under the langet, the unusual length of the blade is more likely to be explained by the loss of the distal part . Usually, khandas have a spoon-like widening of the tip and very often it is either rounded or triangular but with a very obtuse angle. Yours is quite sharp and fit for stabbing.

I think the sword was reworked. Whether it was during its active life, to preserve its fighting function, or much later on, to preserve it as a decorative item, I can't tell.

Hell of a job you are going to have cleaning the rust....

Jim McDougall · 18th March 2016, 07:04 PM

The great part about discussion is that exchange of ideas and observations expand the comprehension of the subject in working toward a more conclusive evaluation or better posed options.
I think Ariel makes good points here (no pun intended) regarding the blade. Though some examples were indeed shorter than others, this seems a bit shorter than those typically shown in references. The lack of the 'trunking' rivet holes at forte does seem significant, and reworking of the blade quite possible.
The tip of this blade seems atypical toward either the 'spatulate' flare or the acute point of spear or other shapes usually seen on early khandas. It seems too 'rebated' for thrust however, and it seems that the swordsmanship of these times favored heavy chopping or slashing cuts instead.
I would not have suspected paint in the blade patches, but not surprised between these old eyes and my less than high tech computer 'skills'(?).
That is a relief though! and though I cannot imagine why paint would be there......it bolsters the value of that patination.

If up to me, I would leave darkened patination alone as to me it adds to the historical demeanor of the sword. I am only for stabilizing active corrosion and any damage. As for the paint spots, remove or darken accordingly.

Rick · 20th March 2016, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

If there is no rivet hole under the langet, the unusual length of the blade is more likely to be explained by the loss of the distal part . Usually, khandas have a spoon-like widening of the tip and very often it is either rounded or triangular but with a very obtuse angle. Yours is quite sharp and fit for stabbing.

I think the sword was reworked. Whether it was during its active life, to preserve its fighting function, or much later on, to preserve it as a decorative item, I can't tell.

Hell of a job you are going to have cleaning the rust....

Something new for rust:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfczxBWJuNg#t=36

17th March 2016, 11:03 PM	#1
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Hi Thanks for the replies Yes There is a hole in the fretting with a rivet which seems to be holding the fretting to the blade Yes there is a ridge on the blade It seems to me to be a working blade but maybe a tourist item, this I do not know If any more photos would help it is no problem Cheers Ken Attached Images Last edited by Ken Maddock; 17th March 2016 at 11:18 PM.

17th March 2016, 11:23 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	I believe what Ariel was looking for would be a hole under the langets.

18th March 2016, 02:57 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Interesting conundrum. Obviously the hilt is a reasonably modern tulwar type (relatively) and could be 19th century Rajasthan product. Khanda blades are of course from centuries earlier into medieval period. While there seems to be good age patination on the blade, it is hard to guage from photos, and the bright spots are of concern for metal of such presumed age. The blade itself seems rather 'shapeless' and rudimentary, but I would point out that khanda blades of early times, though often flat, were also often with central ridge ("Hindu Arms & Ritual", Elgood. p.81-82, fig. 8.11). The plates running along the edges were as much for added weight to downward blows as for strength, and the shorter for grasping of blade if required. The usual hilt on these was of course the basket type hilt with the long stem extending to grip as well. In most cases on authentic khanda there were bolsters (trunking) extending down the forte and riveted to the blade (as mentioned by Ariel). The blade edge plates on this seem rudimentary and lack the usual openwork or piercings of most examples. While always trying to be optimistic, this example seems somewhat off center though hard to say from photos, the incongruent use of the tulwar hilt notwithstanding....and may have been intended for ceremonial or votive use. It does not seem close enough stylistically for a souvenier or 'collectible'.

18th March 2016, 08:53 AM	#4
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Thanks Gentlemen for your information Some answers There is no rivet holding the handle to the blade, it seems to be entirely held in by resin There are no bright spots of metal on the blade, the white bits are white paint, there are more spots of other colours here and there. I purchased at an auction in Ireland so no story with the sword. The blade length is quiet short at just over two foot but has a hefty weight to it. I have handled and owned a fair amount of similar items so I do think it is a fighting item but I have been wrong many times I will report back with a weight when I get to a scales Thanks Ken

18th March 2016, 11:20 AM	#5
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 428	On the most part of Indian painting the khandas had tulwar-type handle. I like this item. Real sword.

18th March 2016, 04:55 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	If there is no rivet hole under the langet, the unusual length of the blade is more likely to be explained by the loss of the distal part . Usually, khandas have a spoon-like widening of the tip and very often it is either rounded or triangular but with a very obtuse angle. Yours is quite sharp and fit for stabbing. I think the sword was reworked. Whether it was during its active life, to preserve its fighting function, or much later on, to preserve it as a decorative item, I can't tell. Hell of a job you are going to have cleaning the rust....

18th March 2016, 07:04 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	The great part about discussion is that exchange of ideas and observations expand the comprehension of the subject in working toward a more conclusive evaluation or better posed options. I think Ariel makes good points here (no pun intended) regarding the blade. Though some examples were indeed shorter than others, this seems a bit shorter than those typically shown in references. The lack of the 'trunking' rivet holes at forte does seem significant, and reworking of the blade quite possible. The tip of this blade seems atypical toward either the 'spatulate' flare or the acute point of spear or other shapes usually seen on early khandas. It seems too 'rebated' for thrust however, and it seems that the swordsmanship of these times favored heavy chopping or slashing cuts instead. I would not have suspected paint in the blade patches, but not surprised between these old eyes and my less than high tech computer 'skills'(?). That is a relief though! and though I cannot imagine why paint would be there......it bolsters the value of that patination. If up to me, I would leave darkened patination alone as to me it adds to the historical demeanor of the sword. I am only for stabilizing active corrosion and any damage. As for the paint spots, remove or darken accordingly.