My First Kris

David · 29th February 2016, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsendaday

Question: Is it normal that all the blades on all the Krises are bendable. I mean you can easily bend this blade and then you will have to bend it back. For example European blades will spring back themselves and some of them will bend up to 90 degree before they go out of shape. Thanks.

No blade should go easily out of shape when you try to bend it. If it bends and doesn't spring back i'd say that's not a good thing.

VANDOO · 29th February 2016, 06:30 AM

TO BEND A KRIS BLADE WITH THE BARE HANDS AND IT STAY THAT WAY IS SOMETHING I HAVE NEVER SEEN DONE AND I SERIOUSLY DOUBT I COULD ACCOMPLISH WITH ANY OF MINE. YOUR EXAMPLE APPEARS TO HAVE A BLADE THICKNESS THAT IS NORMAL PERHAPS IT HAS LOST ITS TEMPER OR YOU USED SOMETHING OTHER THAN BARE HANDS TO BEND IT.? AT ANY RATE ANY SWORD THAT EASILY BENDS, DOSE'T SPRING BACK AND STAYS BENT IS INFERIOR AND UNDESIRABLE IN MY OPINION.

arsendaday · 29th February 2016, 09:33 PM

I bend them with bare hands and I am being very gentle too. Now I have 4 Krises from different times and regions and all of them bend and stay out of shape. And not only the krises. Most Indian Tulwars that I own and almost all the Caucasian Kindjals that I own have the same issue. Exceptions are Russian made kindjals and Bebuts, but those are made at a later time and in factories. So I was always wandering if its just me or its common.

arsendaday · 29th February 2016, 10:57 PM

Here are all my krises. One is an old Bali one, the others are new from Sumatra and Jawa, as I am told.

Emanuel · 1st March 2016, 07:02 PM

Hello,

You have to differentiate between the short sword KRIS sundang from the Philippines, and the KERIS dagger from the Indonesian archipelago. Your first piece is a KRIS. Your other 4 are KERIS. The Balinese one actually doesn't looka that old.

The KRIS sword blades should not take a set, while the KERIS daggers might, as they're lower carbon-content and softer.

Emanuel

David · 1st March 2016, 08:06 PM

You will remember that i originally shifted this thread to the Ethno forum because the kris you posted was not an Indonesian/Malay keris. Well, now you are posting Indonesian keris and these need to be discussed on the keris forum, not here.
While this two weapons have an overall similar form (the Indonesian keris being the ancestor to later development of Moro kris/kalis forms) they are from different cultures and operate differently as weapons (stabbing vs. slashing). If you want to talk about these Indonesian keris please post them on the Keris Forum.
While keris are usually hardened (some more recent ones perhaps not), they are more likely to be softer (lower carbon) than their Moro cousins. But honestly you baffle me a bit here. Why on earth would you want to bend an the blade risking irrevocable damage and possibly breaking these blades?

I am afraid i just don't understand that.

David · 1st March 2016, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

The Balinese one actually doesn't looka that old.

Emanuel, the "Bali" keris posted here is probably the oldest of the lot and in fact seems to have some considerable age. The dress for it is late 20th century, but the blade is fairly old and looks to be to perhaps be of Javanese origin.

Battara · 2nd March 2016, 01:03 AM

I must agree with David here. Although both kris and kris are cousins and part of the same family tree, they are of course not the same. For that reason kris are discussed here and keris are discussed on the Keris Forum.

arsendaday · 2nd March 2016, 02:11 AM

Hi everyone. My apologies for being a little confused about the "Kris" & "Keris". When I was buying these daggers the descriptions on all of them had kris and keris in them, but I am learning and will be more careful next time. I really appreciate all the input and comments.

As for the blade bending; I am not doing it all the way, nor did I ever ruin any blades by doing so. What I am doing is feeling it a little bit, to determine if it is a quality steel or not. As most of you know the European blades are very springy and some of them can be bent well over 45 degrees without any harm to the blade. More over in Russian factories in Zlatoust and Izhevsk that's how they determined if the blade is of good quality or not, i.e. by hanging weight from the tip of the blade and checking how much weight it would take before it would bend out of shape. BTW the markings on some of the early Soviet Shashkas meant just that: i.e. 15КГ or 17КГ meaning 15 or 17 kilograms, before the blade would not bend back to its original form completely. So one CAN and SHOULD try to bend the blade, while trying to determine the quality of the steel, without being afraid to break it. And if your shashka doesn't bend more than 30 degrees and spring back completely than it's a fake for sure. I would not really hang any weights from my blades for sure, and if the blade is too old or valuable I just leave them be, but I have a very old Caucasian Shashka that can be bend almost into a circle without any damage to the blade. And bunch of other Russian and European swords and daggers that will bend to a certain degree. As one old sayings goes "a shashka should be as elastic as a vine..."

But I digress. I will probably start a new thread about the elasticity of the bladed weapons, with the moderators' permission of course, as soon as I have enough material to do so. In the meantime I will try to learn more about the Kris and Keris, because I find these weapons very fascinating. Thanks again.

P.S. Here are some photos of the markings that I was talking about. The first one is a real mark of a 1927 NKVD Shaska, while the second is a fake Shashka with a wrong mark, because it reads 18KP which doesn't make any sense.

29th February 2016, 09:33 PM	#3
arsendaday Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 44	All My Krises Bend I bend them with bare hands and I am being very gentle too. Now I have 4 Krises from different times and regions and all of them bend and stay out of shape. And not only the krises. Most Indian Tulwars that I own and almost all the Caucasian Kindjals that I own have the same issue. Exceptions are Russian made kindjals and Bebuts, but those are made at a later time and in factories. So I was always wandering if its just me or its common.

29th February 2016, 10:57 PM	#4
arsendaday Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 44	The rest of Them Here are all my krises. One is an old Bali one, the others are new from Sumatra and Jawa, as I am told. Attached Images

2nd March 2016, 02:11 AM	#9
arsendaday Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 44	Apologies Hi everyone. My apologies for being a little confused about the "Kris" & "Keris". When I was buying these daggers the descriptions on all of them had kris and keris in them, but I am learning and will be more careful next time. I really appreciate all the input and comments. As for the blade bending; I am not doing it all the way, nor did I ever ruin any blades by doing so. What I am doing is feeling it a little bit, to determine if it is a quality steel or not. As most of you know the European blades are very springy and some of them can be bent well over 45 degrees without any harm to the blade. More over in Russian factories in Zlatoust and Izhevsk that's how they determined if the blade is of good quality or not, i.e. by hanging weight from the tip of the blade and checking how much weight it would take before it would bend out of shape. BTW the markings on some of the early Soviet Shashkas meant just that: i.e. 15КГ or 17КГ meaning 15 or 17 kilograms, before the blade would not bend back to its original form completely. So one CAN and SHOULD try to bend the blade, while trying to determine the quality of the steel, without being afraid to break it. And if your shashka doesn't bend more than 30 degrees and spring back completely than it's a fake for sure. I would not really hang any weights from my blades for sure, and if the blade is too old or valuable I just leave them be, but I have a very old Caucasian Shashka that can be bend almost into a circle without any damage to the blade. And bunch of other Russian and European swords and daggers that will bend to a certain degree. As one old sayings goes "a shashka should be as elastic as a vine..." But I digress. I will probably start a new thread about the elasticity of the bladed weapons, with the moderators' permission of course, as soon as I have enough material to do so. In the meantime I will try to learn more about the Kris and Keris, because I find these weapons very fascinating. Thanks again. P.S. Here are some photos of the markings that I was talking about. The first one is a real mark of a 1927 NKVD Shaska, while the second is a fake Shashka with a wrong mark, because it reads 18KP which doesn't make any sense. Attached Images

29th February 2016, 06:30 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	TO BEND A KRIS BLADE WITH THE BARE HANDS AND IT STAY THAT WAY IS SOMETHING I HAVE NEVER SEEN DONE AND I SERIOUSLY DOUBT I COULD ACCOMPLISH WITH ANY OF MINE. YOUR EXAMPLE APPEARS TO HAVE A BLADE THICKNESS THAT IS NORMAL PERHAPS IT HAS LOST ITS TEMPER OR YOU USED SOMETHING OTHER THAN BARE HANDS TO BEND IT.? AT ANY RATE ANY SWORD THAT EASILY BENDS, DOSE'T SPRING BACK AND STAYS BENT IS INFERIOR AND UNDESIRABLE IN MY OPINION.

1st March 2016, 07:02 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, You have to differentiate between the short sword KRIS sundang from the Philippines, and the KERIS dagger from the Indonesian archipelago. Your first piece is a KRIS. Your other 4 are KERIS. The Balinese one actually doesn't looka that old. The KRIS sword blades should not take a set, while the KERIS daggers might, as they're lower carbon-content and softer. Emanuel

1st March 2016, 08:06 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	You will remember that i originally shifted this thread to the Ethno forum because the kris you posted was not an Indonesian/Malay keris. Well, now you are posting Indonesian keris and these need to be discussed on the keris forum, not here. While this two weapons have an overall similar form (the Indonesian keris being the ancestor to later development of Moro kris/kalis forms) they are from different cultures and operate differently as weapons (stabbing vs. slashing). If you want to talk about these Indonesian keris please post them on the Keris Forum. While keris are usually hardened (some more recent ones perhaps not), they are more likely to be softer (lower carbon) than their Moro cousins. But honestly you baffle me a bit here. Why on earth would you want to bend an the blade risking irrevocable damage and possibly breaking these blades? I am afraid i just don't understand that.

2nd March 2016, 01:03 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I must agree with David here. Although both kris and kris are cousins and part of the same family tree, they are of course not the same. For that reason kris are discussed here and keris are discussed on the Keris Forum.