Toledo Rapier Info

[fernando]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

... I find fascinating the idea of a swordsmith travelling all the way from Solingen to Toledo, just to learn new secrets and perfect his skill...

Maybe not for learning but for trying to make a few extra pesetas with a better paid job. I guess Solingen smiths had nothing new to learn in Toledo, but the Spaniards were larger consumers, due to period expansion .

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by fernando

Maybe not for learning but for trying to make a few extra pesetas with a better paid job. I guess Solingen smiths had nothing new to learn in Toledo, but the Spaniards were larger consumers, due to period expansion .

This is an interesting point, as Solingen was also a well established centre of excellence in swords making.

But then why not simply make the blades in Solingen and market them in Spain, as it is the case with many Spanish rapiers bearing Solingen made blades?!

However, we may stir now a debate whether Heinrich Brach traveled to Spain to perfect his skill or to boost his sales... while he might have traveled to Spain because he just wanted a sunny holiday and was fed up with German weather.

[mariusgmioc]

As I was trying to compare the signature on my sword with the one in the photo supplied by Jasper, while examining the blade under 10x magnification, I made a stunning discovery:

On one side the signature reads:

TOLEDO XX HEINRICH XX BRACHO XX

on the other side

TOLEDO XX HEINRICH XX BRACH XX

In both inscriptions the size of the letters decreases towards the tip, as the fuller gets narrower, exactly like in the photo supplied by Jasper.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!

[Philip]

Hi, Fernando
Are you familiar with the writings of the late Ada Bruhn Hoffmeyer? The other day I was revisiting her article "From Medieval Sword to Renaissance Rapier" in ART, ARMS, AND ARMOUR: AN INTERNATIONAL ANTHOLOGY Vol. 1 (ed. Robt Held, 1979), p 60 contains the following quote which is germane to the current discussion:
"In the succeeding centuries [after 1500] Solingen turned out blades that satisfied the requirements of both Latin and Germanic buyers, and in time became the leading manufacturing center for sheer quantity -- but the Spanish manufacturies in Toledo and Valencia were superior for quality... Probably no centre surpassed Toledo for quality. Both Toledo and Milanese products were extensively imitated by Solingen."

Interesting to note also that the gun barrel makers of Spain, especially those in Eibar and its vicinity, set the standard for quality in Europe during the 16th-17th cent., and their products as well as the best English barrels of the following century were often imitated by German makers (see James D. Lavin, A HISTORY OF SPANISH FIREARMS), though not necessarily with success (see Robt. Held, THE AGE OF FIREARMS, for a charming early-19th cent. American editorial on the subject).

[fernando]

Now you caught me, Philip
I confess i do not have Hoffmeyer’s work. I took it that these arguments are more based in the offer and demand phenomena, resulting from economic conveniences and in the most, to mystics applied to each case and not in factual scientific judgement. You know, Toledo with its steel brought from Mondragon (País Vasco), the secret tempering recipes, the river Tejo waters and all that. Like Larrañaga and Azpiazu, each one pulls the ember to his sardine.

But i happen to have Lavin's book. Although i only consult it to check on a determined smith or a gun example, i have now actually read a number of pages; as many as the cats allowed me to, with their everlasting interfering curiosity, jumping over to the book while i read it. What i have learnt so far is that the Germans were not that bad; reason why Carlos V and Prince Filipe had acquired a number of arquebuses with the wheel-lock system to furnish the Royal gunsmiths patterns for their manufacture in Spain. That the same Carlos V brought to Spain the famous Marquarts, considered the best he found in Aubsburg, then considered the center of firearms in Europe, to work for him and later Kings. And so it seems as these Marquarts became the local stars, for the King ordered them to come to court (then Toledo) as being two Master Armorers, who were doubtless the two finest in that Empire.
On the other hand, naturally also Portuguese smiths, sometimes quoted by Lavin, would have a say in this subject; but the country been obscured by Spanish Filipes domination during 1580-1640 and the very little material written in this area makes us think that only a residual number of them existed. I am lucky to have a work done by an expert in these things, Sousa Viterbo called A ARMARIA EM PORTUGAL (1907), where he lists hundreds (hundreds) of smiths, makers of armor, swords, crossbows and firearms, of which a master Pero Vasques is recorded to have made the first example in 1461. It is indeed a precious and comprehensive work, where he lets us know not only the smith’s specialities but also the date of their Royal letters of privilege (licenses) and often their production activities, personal events, problems with justice and all.

-

[Jim McDougall]

Philip, it is fantastic to have you writing here again!!! Your entries always add profound dimension to these discussions
For example, while I do have the work by Ms Hoffmeyer, I had always pretty much subscribed to the perspective noted by Fernando, and actually did not realize that Toledo remained a most viable center in these times.

I suppose I should have realized that with these Solingen sword smiths who had gone to Toledo in these times to comingle with the smiths there, and taking Spanish versions of their own names (Enrique Coll/ Heinrich Koll) that this might be the case.

I thank you very much for pointing out this essential and important passage, which definitely puts these centers operating concurrently in the proper perspective.

Fernando, I can totally relate to your cat dilemma! I used to have two who inevitably sprawled across the pages of books and notes I was working on as if I had put them there for that purpose. It always reminded me of Ernest Hemingway, who was constantly surrounded by his houseful of cats.
Interestingly, a man who was keenly fascinated by Spain and the Iberian Peninsula.

[Philip]

Fernando's mention of the Rio Tejo brings to mind the ancient Romans, who highly valued the steel made at Toledo. Jim, you probably recall the influence of Hispania on the development of the gladius as well -- reaching back to my grad-school readings, I remember that antiquarians classify two styles of the Roman shortsword, the so-called Spanish and Mainz patterns, distinguished primarily by their blade profiles. Perhaps the former was inspired by Celtiberian prototypes?

At any rate, Roman writers seem to have had high praise for Spanish steel for its superb temper. Contrasted with observations about the long swords of the Gauls, many of which were of softer metal which bent easily.