Basket hilted swords

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 18th February 2016, 01:40 PM

Salaams All...Following on from the above post ~ The swords below seem to be associated with Border Reiver style...

Please see http://fallingangelslosthighways.blo...borderers.html from which I extract the pictures below and Quote"All three of the weapons illustrated are "backswords." that is to say that they are sharp on the forward (cutting) edge, and blunt on the back edge.

However in each case, the last four to six inches of the back edge are sharp, in order to provide a thrusting point.
The sword on the left of the picture, is one of the most important surviving British Basket hilts, and dates from the second quarter of the 16th century.

The large "Globe pommel" is both light in weight, and hollow, and the guard is asymmetrical being of a different form on the outside of the hand than the inside."Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Richard G · 31st March 2016, 01:09 PM

Came across this the other day, (a bit grisly, I know)
Montrose was James Graham, a Scottish Royalist, (the Great Montrose) hung, drawn and quartered in Edinburgh in 1651, if I remember rightly. The sword was reputedley Montrose's
Regards
Richard
PS Will try to attach a pdf file. Page 69 describes the sword.

fernando · 18th December 2016, 02:01 PM

Cathey, you have a PM.

Cathey · 27th December 2016, 02:12 AM

Hi
If you are a seriously addicted to Basket Hilted swords then Volume 1 of The Baron of Earlshall's "The Scottish Basket Hilted Sword" is a must. Privately published, this limited print run is restricted to 200 total copies worldwide. last time I heard there was only 30 left. Volume 1, covers the years 1450-1600, contains three chapters consisting of 479 pages, 325 black & white plates, 11 colour plates & 39 figures (line drawings). At 12" X 8.5" and 1.5" spine width, it weighs slightly over 2.5 kilograms.

Personally, I have been waiting for this book for a long time, and now it has arrived I can’t wait for Volume 2 to be released. Rex would have preferred more consistency in the quality of the photographs, however the information contained in Volume 1 has exceeded my expectations. If you would like the details of how to purchase a copy send me a PM or look in Swap and Sell.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

Cathey · 11th January 2017, 02:24 AM

Hi Guys, thought it was time to post another Basket hilt.

Date: Pattern 1828, manufacture date 1857
Nationality: British
Overall Length: 102 cm (40.2 inches) in scabbard, 98 cm (38.6 inches) sword only
Blade length: 82.2 cm (32.4 inches)
Blade widest point: 3.256 cm (1.3 inches)
Hilt widest point: 14.6 cm (5.7 inches)
Inside grip length: 10.3 cm (4.1 inches)
Marks, etc. Back-edge of blade, bottom of ricasso, is stamped with the serial number "8512". Etched onto ricasso, right is, "HENRY / WILKINSON / PALL MALL / LONDON"; in left ricasso is the Wilkinson "proof plug" (slightly damaged); etched into blade panel on left is the Argyll 'Boar's Head' over the motto of the 91st Regiment, "Ne Obliviscaris" over "PRINCESS / LOUISE'S / ARGYLL / & / SUTHERLAND / HIGHLANDERS"; the right blade panel is etched with the Sutherland 'Wild Cat' over the motto of the 93rd Regiment "Sans Peur"

Description
Scottish basket hilt in correct steel field scabbard. This sword belonged to a field officer in, "Princess Louise's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders". It is believed this was a family sword and used before the creation of this particular unit in 1881. The sword was manufactured by Henry Wilkinson, the serial numbered 8512 for 1857. It is also believed this sword was likely shipped back to Wilkinson for the subsequent new unit designation etching circa 1881. The blade has scattered dark oxidation and some scattered minor edge wear; hilt does not appear to have any fractures.

General Remarks
Princess Louise's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders was formed in 1881 by combining the 91st (Argyllshire Highlanders) and the 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders), both Regiments of Foot. The 91st and 93rd Regiments of Foot were first formed in 1759. The 93rd - originally known as the 1st Sutherland Fencibles - became the 93rd Sutherland Highlanders in 1800. These two regiments were merged during the Childers Reforms in 1881 - the 91st becoming the 1st Battalion, the 93rd becoming the 2nd Battalion, Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. It is very likely this sword was originally carried by a Field Officer in either the 91st or 93rd Regiment of Foot before the merger.

Research to date
The Wilkinson Proof docket says McNeill or Mr Hart (it has been suggested that they meant McNeill for Mr Hart) in which case the sword belonged to Hart. At some time after 1881 the sword has been re-designated/engraved with the regimental emblems etc. of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. By this time both McNeill and Hart had long retired. There is a Malcolm McNeil in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders at this time, perhaps a son or grandson of the original Malcolm McNeill linked to the sword.

The only regiment that had a McNeill and a Hart in it at the same time was the 78th Ross Shire Buffs. Both a Malcolm McNeill and a James Hart are in the Harts Army list for 1860. Wilkinson Sword purchase is dated 6 February 1858, Malcolm McNeil was gazetted Ensign in 18 December 1857 but Mr. (Ensign) James Hart was not gazetted until 10 September the following year (1858).

James Hart was promoted from the ranks, Sergeant-Major James Hart to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Ewing. Dated 10th September, 1858.

Both Men retired in 1861, James still an Ensign, however having seen considerable action Malcolm a Lieutenant with no record of serving in action found to date.

According to the 1860 Hart Army list “Ensign Hart served in the Persian war in 1857, including the night attack and battle of Kooshab, and bombardment of Mohumrah (medal and clasp). Served in Bengal with Havelock’s column from its first taking the field in 1857, including the actions of Futtehpore, Aoung, Pandoo Nuddee, Cawnpore, Onao, Buseerutgunge (1st and 2nd), Bithoor, and the several actions leading to and ending in the rleif of the Residency of Lucknow and subsequent defence; with Outram’s force at Alumbagh, including the repulse of the numerous attacks, and operations ending in the final capture of Lucklow; the Rohilcund campaign in 1858 and capture of Bareilly (Medal and Clasp).

I have found no record of a Hart in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

At this stage I am leaning towards the view that McNeill gifted the sword to James Hart, who latter re-gifted it to a son or grandson of Malcolm McNeill serving in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders

Cheers Cathey and Rex

fernando · 11th January 2017, 12:00 PM

Beautiful sword, in excelent condition and with a well researched background

.

Cathey · 14th January 2017, 05:47 AM

Hi Guys’

This sword has been in our collection for many years and we have never come across the blade mark before. Any assistance regarding this odd mark will be most appreciated. I have found some marks that are vaguely similar but they date from 1380 onwards. The references for these are:

GYNGELL, Dudley S. Hawtrey ARMOURERS MARKS pp25
KINMAN, Steffan European Makers of Edged Weapons, their Marks A Handbook for Museums and Collectors pp23
LENKIEWICZ, Zygmunt S. 1000 SWORD MARKS OF EUROPEAN BLADEMAKERS pp80, 88, 94,

Nationality Scottish
Overall Length 96 cm (37.8 inches)
Blade length 83.2 cm (32.8 inches)
Blade widest point 3.3 cm (1.3 inches)
Hilt widest point 5” 12.7 cm
Inside grip length 3 ¾” 9.5 cm
Marks, etc. Deep blade mark stamped just below hilt.

Description
BASKET-HILT Scottish Circa 1615 Cavalry Broad Sword. Blade is pitted and has dark patina, possibly predates hilt. ‘S’ type basket. The same style of basket is featured in the September 1994 “Scottish Sword & Shield“ catalogue on page 12 no. 25 described as “Scottish basket hilted sword of the Saltire Group. S type basket Circa 1610 – 1625.”

This sword has more neatly formed frontal saltire bars and the mid-point notches on the vertical sides of the junction plates are more U Shaped than those seen on other examples, but the pommel is cone shaped with grooving and fluting at the front and the rear but not, apparently at the sides. The lobes at the centre of the lateral linking bars are extremely long. Interestingly, the extended horizontal S bars are welded at the very top of the aperture formed by the rear and front vertical bar; the upper curve of the S bar nestling between the juncture of the rear vertical bar and where it joins the shoulder linking it with the forward vertical bar.

The grip is a replacement 18th century one with plain iron collars at top and bottom. The double edged blade has single central groove stamped at the top with curious mark resembling a fleur-de-lys lacking its central stem. An additional curiosity is the arrangement of how the linking bars and lower rear arms of the saltires are welded behind the forward vertical bar instead of being merged directly into it.

Regards Cathey and Rex

18th February 2016, 01:40 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All...Following on from the above post ~ The swords below seem to be associated with Border Reiver style... Please see http://fallingangelslosthighways.blo...borderers.html from which I extract the pictures below and Quote"All three of the weapons illustrated are "backswords." that is to say that they are sharp on the forward (cutting) edge, and blunt on the back edge. However in each case, the last four to six inches of the back edge are sharp, in order to provide a thrusting point. The sword on the left of the picture, is one of the most important surviving British Basket hilts, and dates from the second quarter of the 16th century. The large "Globe pommel" is both light in weight, and hollow, and the guard is asymmetrical being of a different form on the outside of the hand than the inside."Unquote. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 18th February 2016 at 02:53 PM.

27th December 2016, 02:12 AM	#4
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Vol 1, "The Scottish Basket Hilted Sword" Hi If you are a seriously addicted to Basket Hilted swords then Volume 1 of The Baron of Earlshall's "The Scottish Basket Hilted Sword" is a must. Privately published, this limited print run is restricted to 200 total copies worldwide. last time I heard there was only 30 left. Volume 1, covers the years 1450-1600, contains three chapters consisting of 479 pages, 325 black & white plates, 11 colour plates & 39 figures (line drawings). At 12" X 8.5" and 1.5" spine width, it weighs slightly over 2.5 kilograms. Personally, I have been waiting for this book for a long time, and now it has arrived I can’t wait for Volume 2 to be released. Rex would have preferred more consistency in the quality of the photographs, however the information contained in Volume 1 has exceeded my expectations. If you would like the details of how to purchase a copy send me a PM or look in Swap and Sell. Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

11th January 2017, 02:24 AM	#5
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Pattern 1828 Basket Hilt Princess Louise's Argyll & Sutherland Hi Guys, thought it was time to post another Basket hilt. Date: Pattern 1828, manufacture date 1857 Nationality: British Overall Length: 102 cm (40.2 inches) in scabbard, 98 cm (38.6 inches) sword only Blade length: 82.2 cm (32.4 inches) Blade widest point: 3.256 cm (1.3 inches) Hilt widest point: 14.6 cm (5.7 inches) Inside grip length: 10.3 cm (4.1 inches) Marks, etc. Back-edge of blade, bottom of ricasso, is stamped with the serial number "8512". Etched onto ricasso, right is, "HENRY / WILKINSON / PALL MALL / LONDON"; in left ricasso is the Wilkinson "proof plug" (slightly damaged); etched into blade panel on left is the Argyll 'Boar's Head' over the motto of the 91st Regiment, "Ne Obliviscaris" over "PRINCESS / LOUISE'S / ARGYLL / & / SUTHERLAND / HIGHLANDERS"; the right blade panel is etched with the Sutherland 'Wild Cat' over the motto of the 93rd Regiment "Sans Peur" Description Scottish basket hilt in correct steel field scabbard. This sword belonged to a field officer in, "Princess Louise's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders". It is believed this was a family sword and used before the creation of this particular unit in 1881. The sword was manufactured by Henry Wilkinson, the serial numbered 8512 for 1857. It is also believed this sword was likely shipped back to Wilkinson for the subsequent new unit designation etching circa 1881. The blade has scattered dark oxidation and some scattered minor edge wear; hilt does not appear to have any fractures. General Remarks Princess Louise's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders was formed in 1881 by combining the 91st (Argyllshire Highlanders) and the 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders), both Regiments of Foot. The 91st and 93rd Regiments of Foot were first formed in 1759. The 93rd - originally known as the 1st Sutherland Fencibles - became the 93rd Sutherland Highlanders in 1800. These two regiments were merged during the Childers Reforms in 1881 - the 91st becoming the 1st Battalion, the 93rd becoming the 2nd Battalion, Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. It is very likely this sword was originally carried by a Field Officer in either the 91st or 93rd Regiment of Foot before the merger. Research to date The Wilkinson Proof docket says McNeill or Mr Hart (it has been suggested that they meant McNeill for Mr Hart) in which case the sword belonged to Hart. At some time after 1881 the sword has been re-designated/engraved with the regimental emblems etc. of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. By this time both McNeill and Hart had long retired. There is a Malcolm McNeil in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders at this time, perhaps a son or grandson of the original Malcolm McNeill linked to the sword. The only regiment that had a McNeill and a Hart in it at the same time was the 78th Ross Shire Buffs. Both a Malcolm McNeill and a James Hart are in the Harts Army list for 1860. Wilkinson Sword purchase is dated 6 February 1858, Malcolm McNeil was gazetted Ensign in 18 December 1857 but Mr. (Ensign) James Hart was not gazetted until 10 September the following year (1858). James Hart was promoted from the ranks, Sergeant-Major James Hart to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Ewing. Dated 10th September, 1858. Both Men retired in 1861, James still an Ensign, however having seen considerable action Malcolm a Lieutenant with no record of serving in action found to date. According to the 1860 Hart Army list “Ensign Hart served in the Persian war in 1857, including the night attack and battle of Kooshab, and bombardment of Mohumrah (medal and clasp). Served in Bengal with Havelock’s column from its first taking the field in 1857, including the actions of Futtehpore, Aoung, Pandoo Nuddee, Cawnpore, Onao, Buseerutgunge (1st and 2nd), Bithoor, and the several actions leading to and ending in the rleif of the Residency of Lucknow and subsequent defence; with Outram’s force at Alumbagh, including the repulse of the numerous attacks, and operations ending in the final capture of Lucklow; the Rohilcund campaign in 1858 and capture of Bareilly (Medal and Clasp). I have found no record of a Hart in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. At this stage I am leaning towards the view that McNeill gifted the sword to James Hart, who latter re-gifted it to a son or grandson of Malcolm McNeill serving in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

14th January 2017, 05:47 AM	#7
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	BASKET-HILT c1615 – 1625 –Help with blade mark Hi Guys’ This sword has been in our collection for many years and we have never come across the blade mark before. Any assistance regarding this odd mark will be most appreciated. I have found some marks that are vaguely similar but they date from 1380 onwards. The references for these are: GYNGELL, Dudley S. Hawtrey ARMOURERS MARKS pp25 KINMAN, Steffan European Makers of Edged Weapons, their Marks A Handbook for Museums and Collectors pp23 LENKIEWICZ, Zygmunt S. 1000 SWORD MARKS OF EUROPEAN BLADEMAKERS pp80, 88, 94, Nationality Scottish Overall Length 96 cm (37.8 inches) Blade length 83.2 cm (32.8 inches) Blade widest point 3.3 cm (1.3 inches) Hilt widest point 5” 12.7 cm Inside grip length 3 ¾” 9.5 cm Marks, etc. Deep blade mark stamped just below hilt. Description BASKET-HILT Scottish Circa 1615 Cavalry Broad Sword. Blade is pitted and has dark patina, possibly predates hilt. ‘S’ type basket. The same style of basket is featured in the September 1994 “Scottish Sword & Shield“ catalogue on page 12 no. 25 described as “Scottish basket hilted sword of the Saltire Group. S type basket Circa 1610 – 1625.” This sword has more neatly formed frontal saltire bars and the mid-point notches on the vertical sides of the junction plates are more U Shaped than those seen on other examples, but the pommel is cone shaped with grooving and fluting at the front and the rear but not, apparently at the sides. The lobes at the centre of the lateral linking bars are extremely long. Interestingly, the extended horizontal S bars are welded at the very top of the aperture formed by the rear and front vertical bar; the upper curve of the S bar nestling between the juncture of the rear vertical bar and where it joins the shoulder linking it with the forward vertical bar. The grip is a replacement 18th century one with plain iron collars at top and bottom. The double edged blade has single central groove stamped at the top with curious mark resembling a fleur-de-lys lacking its central stem. An additional curiosity is the arrangement of how the linking bars and lower rear arms of the saltires are welded behind the forward vertical bar instead of being merged directly into it. Regards Cathey and Rex Attached Images

18th December 2016, 02:01 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Cathey, you have a PM.

11th January 2017, 12:00 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Beautiful sword, in excelent condition and with a well researched background .