Identification help?

corrado26 · 9th February 2016, 12:36 PM

After Norman Dixon, The Rapier and Small Sword 1460-1820 the pommel is from 1600-1630 but the style of the hilt with its guards 100 years earlier. Over that I think the blade is too short and so I take this for a modern fake.
corrado26

DaveA · 9th February 2016, 03:07 PM

Thank you very much for the frank comments. I thought that the condition of this sword looked too good for the age/type suggested by the overall design. I'm no expert so I am grateful that the EAA Forum certainly can bring it forward when called upon. My humble thanks.

Dave A.

cornelistromp · 9th February 2016, 06:27 PM

I prefer a picture of the guard and not the inner guard.
maybe you can post some more pictures or a link , so it is very poor material?

hilt is Norman type 43 1550-1630 and the egg-shaped pommel is a variation of type 20 again popular in the second quarter of the 17th century.
the inner guard is of an unusual type, a variation of type 22

The rapier has been over cleaned, especially the blade, but does not look bad.

I don't think it is a fake, my impression is that is a genuine sword from the second quarter of the 17th century ca 1630-1640
(not a rapier the ao length must be >112cm)

best,
jasper

DaveA · 9th February 2016, 06:37 PM

I have requested more pictures, especially close ups of hilt, guard, pommel and any markings on the blade. Stand by.

Dave A

cornelistromp · 10th February 2016, 07:35 AM

correction of my previous post !
the inner Guard is not a variation of type 22 but the mirror image of type21!

ie the sword is a left hander, made for a left-handed person!

best
jasper

DaveA · 10th February 2016, 03:31 PM

Could this left-handed sword, apparently shorter than normal, been intended for use in parrying?

Could the shorter length of blade be a result of a broken blade that was cut down?

Could the shorter length indicate the sword was made for a child or perhaps someone else with less arm strength?

Close up photos are coming soon.

Dave A.

cornelistromp · 10th February 2016, 04:10 PM

why do you think the blade is shortened?

please give is the dimensions and place some pictures of the point.

a sword of this type with an ao length of 90-100cm is fine for 1640

Jim McDougall · 11th February 2016, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveA

Could this left-handed sword, apparently shorter than normal, been intended for use in parrying?

Could the shorter length of blade be a result of a broken blade that was cut down?

Could the shorter length indicate the sword was made for a child or perhaps someone else with less arm strength?

Close up photos are coming soon.

Dave A.

That was an interesting a well placed suggestion Dave. Those are all quite plausible explanations for a shorter than usual blade. The use of dual swords in combat was an occasional instance, and there were dual sets of rapiers known as a 'case'.

DaveA · 14th February 2016, 08:15 AM

Here are more pictures provided to me today by the sword's owner. I'm looking forward to your comments.

Thank you.

Dave A.

DaveA · 14th February 2016, 08:17 AM

More pictures of the mystery sword. Thanks for the comments.

Dave A.

9th February 2016, 03:07 PM	#2
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 432	Thank you Thank you very much for the frank comments. I thought that the condition of this sword looked too good for the age/type suggested by the overall design. I'm no expert so I am grateful that the EAA Forum certainly can bring it forward when called upon. My humble thanks. Dave A.

9th February 2016, 06:37 PM	#4
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 432	Drama! I have requested more pictures, especially close ups of hilt, guard, pommel and any markings on the blade. Stand by. Dave A

10th February 2016, 07:35 AM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,064	correction of my previous post ! the inner Guard is not a variation of type 22 but the mirror image of type21! ie the sword is a left hander, made for a left-handed person! best jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 10th February 2016 at 08:08 AM.

10th February 2016, 03:31 PM	#6
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 432	Shorter, left handed Could this left-handed sword, apparently shorter than normal, been intended for use in parrying? Could the shorter length of blade be a result of a broken blade that was cut down? Could the shorter length indicate the sword was made for a child or perhaps someone else with less arm strength? Close up photos are coming soon. Dave A.

14th February 2016, 08:15 AM	#9
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 432	More pictures of mystery sword (1 of 2) Here are more pictures provided to me today by the sword's owner. I'm looking forward to your comments. Thank you. Dave A. Attached Images

9th February 2016, 12:36 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,242	After Norman Dixon, The Rapier and Small Sword 1460-1820 the pommel is from 1600-1630 but the style of the hilt with its guards 100 years earlier. Over that I think the blade is too short and so I take this for a modern fake. corrado26

9th February 2016, 06:27 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,064	I prefer a picture of the guard and not the inner guard. maybe you can post some more pictures or a link , so it is very poor material? hilt is Norman type 43 1550-1630 and the egg-shaped pommel is a variation of type 20 again popular in the second quarter of the 17th century. the inner guard is of an unusual type, a variation of type 22 The rapier has been over cleaned, especially the blade, but does not look bad. I don't think it is a fake, my impression is that is a genuine sword from the second quarter of the 17th century ca 1630-1640 (not a rapier the ao length must be >112cm) best, jasper

10th February 2016, 04:10 PM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,064	why do you think the blade is shortened? please give is the dimensions and place some pictures of the point. a sword of this type with an ao length of 90-100cm is fine for 1640

14th February 2016, 08:17 AM	#10
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 432	More pictures of mystery sword (2 of 2) More pictures of the mystery sword. Thanks for the comments. Dave A. Attached Images