Oriental knife ID?!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Certainly Walrus ivory and of a known hilt shape and blade type, referred to as a Bichoq. These particular knives have a very Caucasian Shashka hilt essence to them.

Elgood notes about half a dozen manufacturing centres in his image plates within the The Arms of Greece and Her Balkan Neighbors in the Ottoman Period, all sharing similar features...not a specific region I could pin down...perhaps closer to Turkey?

Gavin

Gavin, did you mean bichoq or bichaq? Here is what George Stone has to say about bichaq.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Gavin, did you mean bichoq or bichaq? Here is what George Stone has to say about bichaq.

Estcrh,

My thoughts are that Bichoq, Bichaq, Pichoq, Pichaq and other spelling exists... Name/s for a small knives such as the one presented, a name used dependant of the region across the Balkans and wider Turkic areas to the east.

As with yataghan, Kilij and Shamshir, the grip slabs are pinned, but being raised off the tangs and sealed/decorated with grip straps and bolsters or in the case of swords, the quillon blocks, this is typical, but Stones assessment seems to be limited to only bone or ivory slabs when so many more materials were used from horn, rhino horn, silvers, brass, ceramics, stones and others I am sure I have not listed.

This knife fits the form despite being a single pieces of ivory. The same could be said for the known Turkish small one piece Jade hilts too.

Gavin

[Martin Lubojacky]

Just small remark the classification of "bıçak". This generally means knife in Turkish an if you ask e.g. for a modern stainless steel knife in restaurant you ask them to bring a bıçak.

The knife is very nice. I think the style of the sheath is more to the Ege region (? Kubur will definitely repair me if I am mistaken). Interesting is, that contemporary silversmiths/restorers in Turkey can make such nice sheath - like in old times, too. But I think contemprary chasing is much deeper than they used to do it before
Martin

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Gavin, did you mean bichoq or bichaq? Here is what George Stone has to say about bichaq.

I have seen all of the following terms used to refer to the bichaq. So much depends on who is speaking, where and when, and who is writing it down!

bıçak, bichaq, bishaq, bichaq, bichac, pichoq, pichok, pchak, pechak, P’chak


Best,

Dave A.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by DaveA

I have seen all of the following terms used to refer to the bichaq. So much depends on who is speaking, where and when, and who is writing it down!

bıçak, bichaq, bishaq, bichaq, bichac, pichoq, pichok, pchak, pechak, P’chak


Best,

Dave A.

Dave, how many of these terms have written references and which do not, I know that bicak and bichaq are both used in various books but bichak seems to refer to any knife while for some reason bichaq seems to be the preferred term for this specific type of knife. I am not aware of any references which use bichok but it is used online sometimes.

[mariusgmioc]

Regarding the term "bichak," to me it is quite clearly a direct phonetic transliteration of the Turkish word "biçak" simply because English doesn't have the letter "ç" and neither do most of keyboards. It is exacltly the same way as the Turkish word "kiliç" is spelled in English as "kilij" using a spelling that is closer to the way the word should be read. All the other forms, might simply be alternate, sometimes misspelled phonetic transliterations.
As with respect to the meaning of the word, yes in Turkish it means simply "knife" but at the same time it has become a associated with a specific Ottoman type of knife, the very same way the Persian word "kard" which also means "knife" has become associated with the well known specific type of knife that originated in Persia.
PS: The word "kiliç" means "sword" in Turkish, but it has become associated with the specific Turkish saber.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Dave, how many of these terms have written references and which do not, I know that bicak and bichaq are both used in various books but bichak seems to refer to any knife while for some reason bichaq seems to be the preferred term for this specific type of knife. I am not aware of any references which use bichok but it is used online sometimes.

Not looking too hard but Holstein noted another spelling for the type Pitchaq. The Bukhara Museum provides the native name for the type from their region as Pichoq.

Gavin

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Not looking too hard but Holstein noted another spelling for the type Pitchaq. The Bukhara Museum provides the native name for the type from their region as Pichoq.

Gavin

http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio.../uzbek-pichoq/