Old saber from a barn in northeastern Pennsylvania

Lee · 25th January 2016, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

Another thought I had about its origin. In the family is a U.S. Naval Officer's sword, correct?
Check the back carefully near where the guard meets the blade. The manufacturer and date should be etched there.

I got confused with what my friend had told me; there is a Civil War sword descended in the family, but the naval officer apparently served in the Spanish American War time frame. I will get further details.

Because the blade looked 'French' to me, I had carefully searched for the usual script engraving along the back spine near the grip, but there was no trace. It may have been obliterated by rust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

I cant be sure the stamps are not clear enough

My lighting unfortunately does not do a great job with the marks. Holding a LED flashlight close disclosed the 'star over W within shield stamp' fairly clearly. I will see about getting someone to hold the flashlight while I try a close-up and that should provide a clear image of that mark.

Continuing my correction about the incorrect family connection I provided above with some additional information:

1. My friend's grandfather (whose barn the cutlass came from) was an officer during WWI, apparently leading a unit staffed by black soldiers, that very likely fought in Europe and apparently he had brought home souvenirs of that conflict including a Luger pistol and a pickelhaube helmet.

2. The same gentleman, for a time, also had a seasonal home in Camden, South Carolina and brought back furniture and other items from that residence to Pennsylvania.

3. The sword was not hidden in the barn when my friend encountered it as a child, but there with a lot of other interesting old stuff.

4. The level of corrosion is fairly aggressive towards the tip.

I realize this information supports at least three of the theories suggested above...

Lee · 29th January 2016, 12:24 AM

The images looked a lot better on the camera preview screen, but here is the best one for what it is worth...

fernando · 29th January 2016, 01:11 PM

What do we have here ?

.

Lee · 29th January 2016, 01:41 PM

I think these are the identical blade marks; unfortunately depth of field issues prevent my close-up photo from properly showing the top of the shield in the star over W mark, but it is pretty clear to the naked eye with the sword in hand. Thank you all again.

CutlassCollector · 1st February 2016, 03:23 PM

I came across a list of poincons for Chatellerault today while looking for something else.
I found the W with star above in the shield which relates to S. Wideman controller First Class from 1836 to 1843.
He was plain W without the star - second class - from 1829 to 1836.

The director between 1837 and 1839 was C.L.C Dupont de Pontcharra whose stamp was a P with star above in a circle. If that is the same as your P stamp it would date the blade nicely to a two year period.

Regards,

CC

Jim McDougall · 1st February 2016, 05:07 PM

Nicely done CC!!!!

Thank you......adding to notes.

M ELEY · 3rd February 2016, 12:23 AM

That was great work, CC! And Fernando for confirming that the mark existed from that article. Considering the date of manufacture, we can rule out War of 1812 and privateering.

What's left? A bringback sword that got broken/deteriorated over time, a sword used to whack crops, tobacco, corn stalks, etc. A Confederate imported sword captured by Lee's friend's ancestor??

29th January 2016, 12:24 AM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 950	The images looked a lot better on the camera preview screen, but here is the best one for what it is worth... Attached Images

29th January 2016, 01:11 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	What do we have here ? . Attached Images

29th January 2016, 01:41 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 950	Precisely I think these are the identical blade marks; unfortunately depth of field issues prevent my close-up photo from properly showing the top of the shield in the star over W mark, but it is pretty clear to the naked eye with the sword in hand. Thank you all again.

1st February 2016, 03:23 PM	#5
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 368	I came across a list of poincons for Chatellerault today while looking for something else. I found the W with star above in the shield which relates to S. Wideman controller First Class from 1836 to 1843. He was plain W without the star - second class - from 1829 to 1836. The director between 1837 and 1839 was C.L.C Dupont de Pontcharra whose stamp was a P with star above in a circle. If that is the same as your P stamp it would date the blade nicely to a two year period. Regards, CC

1st February 2016, 05:07 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,595	Nicely done CC!!!! Thank you......adding to notes.

3rd February 2016, 12:23 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	That was great work, CC! And Fernando for confirming that the mark existed from that article. Considering the date of manufacture, we can rule out War of 1812 and privateering. What's left? A bringback sword that got broken/deteriorated over time, a sword used to whack crops, tobacco, corn stalks, etc. A Confederate imported sword captured by Lee's friend's ancestor??