Is this a whale's tooth?

A. G. Maisey · 7th January 2016, 12:39 AM

In the Javanese language, the word "peksi" means "bird", it is krama (ie, high level Javanese) for "bird", the ngoko (low level, common level) equivalent is "manuk".

The word "pesi" is the correct word to use for a keris tang, or other stick tang, in some applications it can also mean a "pin".

The confusion between these two words is understandable, because the "k" in "peksi" is a glottal stop, which goes virtually unheard, especially by a non-native speaker of Javanese.

harrywagner · 7th January 2016, 01:40 AM

The peksi hole. Thanks again for the help!

Sajen · 8th January 2016, 08:32 PM

Hello Harry,

look like antler or indeed whalebone on your last picture, I would sort out other bone. It's sometimes very difficult to determine the exact origin of the used material, even elephant ivory can become very difficult when it's very worn.
And it's very awkward to get a decision without handling the material. So it's my best guess.

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 9th January 2016, 01:41 AM

Hello Detlef,

Quote:

look like antler or indeed whalebone on your last picture, I would sort out other bone.

I'm afraid I don't see any notable hints for it being made from stag nor whalebone. Still looks like "generic" bone from a terrestrial mammal to me...

Quote:

And it's very awkward to get a decision without handling the material. So it's my best guess.

Agreed - just my 2 cents as well.

Regards,
Kai

Green · 9th January 2016, 06:53 AM

since you bought it from Ron, why don't we ask our good friend Ron for his opinion too? (He must be lurking here sometimes too I guess

And you're right, Ron is a great seller... in fact I've been considering to buy this keris too but you beat me to it. Congrats .I like the hilt. doesn't matter if it's made from bone or other wise. it still is a v handsome hilt to my eyes.

David · 9th January 2016, 09:27 AM

Gentleman, while i am sure that our good friend Ron appreciates all of your compliments i would like to remind you that we do indeed have many regular keris dealers in our ranks and it is probably best not to to single out any one for endorsement over any other in the context of these pages. It could become awkward. And let's keep in mind the non-commercial nature of these forums if we can please.

harrywagner · 9th January 2016, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

since you bought it from Ron, why don't we ask our good friend Ron for his opinion too? (He must be lurking here sometimes too I guess

And you're right, Ron is a great seller... in fact I've been considering to buy this keris too but you beat me to it. Congrats .I like the hilt. doesn't matter if it's made from bone or other wise. it still is a v handsome hilt to my eyes.

Actually I did ask Ron, and if my memory still serves he thought it was whale bone. Don't quote me on that though. I was looking at four beautiful Keris laid out on my dining room table and was probably in shock.

it really makes no difference to me what the hilt is. It was a good purchase and is one of my favorites now. I would buy it again in a heartbeat!

David · 9th January 2016, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrywagner

Actually I did ask Ron, and if my memory still serves he thought it was whale bone. Don't quote me on that though. I was looking at four beautiful Keris laid out on my dining room table and was probably in shock.

it really makes no difference to me what the hilt is. It was a good purchase and is one of my favorites now. I would buy it again in a heartbeat!

I absolutely agree that the material of this hilt is secondary. It's a nice solid addition to your collection and it seems like an old example. As i stated at the beginning of this thread, it looks like bone to me. I don't particularly think it is whale bone though. Again, doesn't really matter as long as the price you paid didn't reflect an ivory purchase. The use of bone and antler for hilts has always been a means of the lower classes finding cheaper alternatives to more expensive materials. This looks like a nice, well carved example of that and you should be happy with it. Enjoy!

Sajen · 9th January 2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I'm afraid I don't see any notable hints for it being made from stag nor whalebone. Still looks like "generic" bone from a terrestrial mammal to me...

Hello Kai,
I just miss the porouness this material normally have. But like said, it's difficult to get a desicion without handling it.

Regards,
Detlef

7th January 2016, 01:40 AM	#2
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	Peksi hole The peksi hole. Thanks again for the help! Attached Images

7th January 2016, 12:39 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	In the Javanese language, the word "peksi" means "bird", it is krama (ie, high level Javanese) for "bird", the ngoko (low level, common level) equivalent is "manuk". The word "pesi" is the correct word to use for a keris tang, or other stick tang, in some applications it can also mean a "pin". The confusion between these two words is understandable, because the "k" in "peksi" is a glottal stop, which goes virtually unheard, especially by a non-native speaker of Javanese.

8th January 2016, 08:32 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	Hello Harry, look like antler or indeed whalebone on your last picture, I would sort out other bone. It's sometimes very difficult to determine the exact origin of the used material, even elephant ivory can become very difficult when it's very worn. And it's very awkward to get a decision without handling the material. So it's my best guess. Regards, Detlef

9th January 2016, 06:53 AM	#5
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	since you bought it from Ron, why don't we ask our good friend Ron for his opinion too? (He must be lurking here sometimes too I guess And you're right, Ron is a great seller... in fact I've been considering to buy this keris too but you beat me to it. Congrats .I like the hilt. doesn't matter if it's made from bone or other wise. it still is a v handsome hilt to my eyes.

9th January 2016, 09:27 AM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Gentleman, while i am sure that our good friend Ron appreciates all of your compliments i would like to remind you that we do indeed have many regular keris dealers in our ranks and it is probably best not to to single out any one for endorsement over any other in the context of these pages. It could become awkward. And let's keep in mind the non-commercial nature of these forums if we can please.