Is gold or suasa 'better'?

[David]

A Javanese keris from the late 18th century that once belonged to the Regent of Yogyakarta. The pendok is gold with green enamel inlays.
It also seems to me that the preferred material for kinatah is generally gold, not suasa.

[Maurice]

Nice kris David!

I agree about the prefered golden kinatah. And also I agree that most kerisses we know off use gold instead of suassa.
But that is not what I am trying to deny here.

A friend has a lovely Javanese keris with suassa pendok. Not much seen, but he has. And also I have seen a Javanese pedang lurus completely made of suassa instead of silver, which we normally see. This because they prefer silver over suassa? I don't think so. Suassa is much more rare in use somehow, and it is easy to say that because gold is more widespread that this was preferred over suassa.
As I can't imagine that silver is prefered above suassa also, and only know of one pedang lurus in suassa dress and lots of them in silver dresses....

Also I have seen Palembang kerisses with ivory hilt, suassa mendak/selut and also golden fittings here and there. Why not choosen for a golden mendak/selut?

Rumphius also is writing about gold in Indonesia. He writes the same you are telling, that everybody wants gold, and that they hammered it really thin to make krishilts, made from resin within and covered in a thin goldcover.
Btw he seemed not to be very fond of this gold over resin, and sees it as a falsification.

Rumphius also is telling a similar version which Alan is telling about the gold.
"Any native wants some gold in their houses, and no family was happy without having a piece of gold in their possession." But he is referring that back in those days it allready was not that much gold available as rumors were telling. Therefore they hammered it very thin, used plating etc. because it was so precious for everybody to own.
After this he is describing some gold and silver testings, and than the chapter of Suassa starts.
So he also was able to compare it with gold, and still needs te urge to mention the talismanic preference of suassa over gold (which was most wanted in the native possessions).

[A. G. Maisey]

In this matter under discussion, this is the situation as I understand it:-

The notes that G. E. Rumphius used to produce his masterwork were gathered in the 1600's and not published until the 1700's.

In this work he makes a comment based upon (at best) third or fourth hand information that infers a talismanic quality being attributed to suasa in what, at that time, was Mataram (Central Jawa).

So let us assume that it was at least rumoured that at some time, in some place suasa might have had some sort of talismanic quality attributed to it. Let us further assume that during the 1600's, in Central Jawa, suasa had a talismanic value attributed to it.

Personally, I have no problem at all with this, because in Jawa, talismanic values are attributed to just about everything under the sun (& moon & stars). Nothing exists or happens without having some sort of value being attributed to it by somebody.

However, I do have a couple of questions in respect of the comments attributed to G.E. Rumphius:-

1) are these comments on suasa sourced from a VOC journal?

2) in what published work are the reports of metallurgical examinations of suasa, sourced from the Dutch East Indies, reported?

and

3) do we know of any other historical reports that attribute talismanic qualities to suasa, in any other place in the geographic locations where suasa was produced?

[David]

Well, for me the question isn't so much as to whether or not talismanic properties were attributed to suasa in 17th or 18th century Jawa. As Alan points out, talismanic properties are attributed to just about everything, especially things considered precious such as valuable metals. What i am questioning here is the claim that suasa was preferred over gold. If it was one has to wonder why then there are so many more existing examples of the use of gold on keris than there are suasa, especially when one considers that suasa has a lower monetary value than gold. I could literally fill pages upon pages here with photographs of examples of the use of gold in this context, however the existing examples of suasa used on keris seem substantially lower. Why would this be the case if indeed suasa was a preferred metal?

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by David

Well, for me the question isn't so much as to whether or not talismanic properties were attributed to suasa in 17th or 18th century Jawa. As Alan points out, talismanic properties are attributed to just about everything, especially things considered precious such as valuable metals. What i am questioning here is the claim that suasa was preferred over gold. If it was one has to wonder why then there are so many more existing examples of the use of gold on keris than there are suasa, especially when one considers that suasa has a lower monetary value than gold. I could literally fill pages upon pages here with photographs of examples of the use of gold in this context, however the existing examples of suasa used on keris seem substantially lower. Why would this be the case if indeed suasa was a preferred metal?

Yes I am fully aware of that. Everything that looks nice, different etc. must be talismanic at those times (and still) in Indonesia.

I thought I answered your questions before. Gold was something everybody wanted to have, even Rumphius is explaining that allready in his very early work! Therefor you can fill pages upon pages with photographs of examples with gold in this context, as anybody wanted to have it. It was luxury property, and probably also talismanic!
But next to the small chapter of gold, he has a larger chapter of suassa, which had to be much more interesting as the gold that anybody owned!
And he stated there that suassa was preferred over gold because of the talismanic properties, not that suassa is on the same level with gold on luxury property.

Maybe it could be, that suassa was so powerfull that not everybody was able or dared to wear suassa?

PS can you show me an old source that gold was preferred to suassa from a similar age?

[David]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Yes I am fully aware of that. Everything that looks nice, different etc. must be talismanic at those times (and still) in Indonesia.

I thought I answered your questions before. Gold was something everybody wanted to have, even Rumphius is explaining that allready in his very early work! Therefor you can fill pages upon pages with photographs of examples with gold in this context, as anybody wanted to have it. It was luxury property, and probably also talismanic!
But next to the small chapter of gold, he has a larger chapter of suassa, which had to be much more interesting as the gold that anybody owned!
And he stated there that suassa was preferred over gold because of the talismanic properties, not that suassa is on the same level with gold on luxury property.

Maybe it could be, that suassa was so powerfull that not everybody was able or dared to wear suassa?

PS can you show me an old source that gold was preferred to suassa from a similar age?

Maurice, i am afraid that i do not have much access to any old source material from this time. Anything that i have read about the practices of wearing gold come from authors who have gotten their information from such sources. Generally what i have read is that wearing gold dress keris was usually restricted to the court classes, so in those days i would presume that just "anybody" did not own gold and certainly did not dress their keris with it.
I am still waiting to see some examples of these talismanical powerful suasa dressed keris however and no one has yet posted any examples. I do, of course, believe that suasa was used in keris dress from time to time, but i can't say that i have actually seen any examples. One would think that if it were truly preferred as a material over gold we would at least see it's use a bit more in actual examples of keris dress. One would think that if suasa were truly considered more powerful than gold that it would have been used more often in kinatah over the more pure gold we generally see. I certainly don't doubt that Rumphius wrote these things, but that does not necessarily make them true. Frankly, despite his accounts it just does not sound logical to me based on everything else i have been led to believe on how gold is viewed in this society. There are just so many factors that could have led him to a misleading conclusion on this. It is certainly not information i have ever seen elsewhere. So please forgive me if i remain skeptical without some more evidence, both academic and physical to bare it out.

[A. G. Maisey]

Maurice, at the moment I do not have time to respond in depth to your post # 31, however, as you say G.E. Rumphius worked in Ambon, but he refers to the "Susuhunan" and to Jawa.

In the 1600's Ambon and Mataram (Central Jawa) were about as connected as Palermo and Port Moresby are today, in fact not as well connected as Palermo and Port Moresby today.

G.E.Rumphius was freed from his duties with the VOC to permit him to concentrate on his work as a naturalist. He was an amateur ethnographer, but his primary focus was the study of the natural history of Ambon.

It is entirely possible that he heard of the talismanic properties attributed to suasa in Mataram from some Ambonese traveller, or perhaps in Batavia, but his CV does not list duty in Mataram, and in the 1600's Mataram was pretty unsettled territory, delegations to the rulers in Mataram were very probably few and far between, if they existed at all.

In order to understand the veracity of G.E.Rumphius' comments on suasa, we need to try to place them into context. One way in which to begin this effort would be to look closely at his CV. There is a lot of info online concerning G.E.Rumphius.

[kai]

Hello all,

Sorry for chiming in late. I believe that Alan's initial response sums it up quite nicely:

Originally Posted by Alan

If we say "better", my immediate question is "better in what way"?

What we know is that gold is most certainly the very best and most highly regarded material to adorn a blade, and it is the material of choice to calm the disturbing or evil influences that may inhabit a blade.

If suasa is preferred over gold as a material for dress purposes, my own feeling would be that those who say or indicate they prefer it are making a virtue of necessity.

In the culture of Jawa , gold holds a place above all else as a material of honour. Historically rulers used to give gold in huge quantities to buy support.

Within Javanese society gold has historically been used as the measure of all value:- a debt of currency will be expressed as a weight of gold, and you repay the gold weight extressed as currency when you repay the debt. This has been the case for a very long time.

Gold is firmly fixed in the Javanese mind as the only thing of true worth --- even my own daughter-in-law will not wear any jewellery unless it is gold. I know people whom I consider to be relatively poor who will save every spare rupiah until they have sufficient to buy some gold, and along the way, they will refuse to wear costume jewellery, because if they can't wear gold, they will wear nothing.

If Javanese royalty preferred suasa to gold, I feel that perhaps a few stories may have been invented to justify that preference.

It is beyond doubt that gold was the major store of wealth and status throughout all of the SEA archipelago from ancient times on (maybe except for very remote cultures); cultures with own gold deposits had an edge... Also the female part of the population, from all accounts that I know of, relied on gold jewellery to independently store wealth (if possible at all).


However, I'm with Maurice that Rumphius' account certainly needs to be taken into account since it is one of the few very early *and* extensive sources and actually quite similar to the important Chinese reports.

Note that he also mentions gold keris hilts filled with resin in an earlier passage. When talking about suasa, he first mentions two other ethnic groups: "Therefore the Malays and Makassarese like to use suasa for keris and their weapons, for luck in war" - obviously this is specifically addressing weapons and not general storage of wealth. I'm not sure wether Rumphius' concept of "Malays" includes Aceh and possibly even Palembang. However, it should be noted that together with these 2 additional spheres of influence, peninsular Malay and Bugis/Gowa weapons are among those which do exhibit suasa decoration most often (and of course, there are many royal/state pieces which are clad in high-carat gold as well)... So there may be some truth to this account.

When he goes on to discuss Jawa, he also first focuses on weapons: "the Javanese can produce suasa in thin sheets, and use it to mount their keris sheaths" - with very few surviving examples and likely non-random sampling from that period this may be difficult to verify (pieces remaining inside the Javanese cultures had to be redressed at least several times and this will be done according to the latest fads wiping out any earlier preferences).

Only his statement "The Javanese esteem suasa more highly than gold, and their emperor, the Susuhunan, wears it more than gold." seems to run against what we believe to know. I still need to check wether the original context was possibly meant to be restricted to weapons rather than a general comment; since he also mentioned gold keris hilts, I don't think we are forced to decide between 2 different takes on history here...

Regards,
Kai

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In this matter under discussion, this is the situation as I understand it:-

The notes that G. E. Rumphius used to produce his masterwork were gathered in the 1600's and not published until the 1700's.

In this work he makes a comment based upon (at best) third or fourth hand information that infers a talismanic quality being attributed to suasa in what, at that time, was Mataram (Central Jawa).

So let us assume that it was at least rumoured that at some time, in some place suasa might have had some sort of talismanic quality attributed to it. Let us further assume that during the 1600's, in Central Jawa, suasa had a talismanic value attributed to it.

Personally, I have no problem at all with this, because in Jawa, talismanic values are attributed to just about everything under the sun (& moon & stars). Nothing exists or happens without having some sort of value being attributed to it by somebody.

However, I do have a couple of questions in respect of the comments attributed to G.E. Rumphius:-

1) are these comments on suasa sourced from a VOC journal?

2) in what published work are the reports of metallurgical examinations of suasa, sourced from the Dutch East Indies, reported?

and

3) do we know of any other historical reports that attribute talismanic qualities to suasa, in any other place in the geographic locations where suasa was produced?

I don't know why the information would be from third or fourth hand information? I can not find it anywhere. He visited the area himself, and lived since 1657 in Ambon, and in 1662 he travelled to the Banda area.
His work of 1661 foliosheets were shipped to the Republic with the ship "Waterland", but all got lost during a sea battle near "Bordeaux".
However, Johannes Camphuys, had during his life made copies of Rumphius work, and therefore it took so long in between to publish all the work of Rumphius.

Your questions:
1) Rumphius was working for the VOC as a military engineer, and I don't know if his work had been used in VOC journals. These are not published as far as I know, and to do some more research one need to have lots of time and also visit The Hague, were the journals are stored (as far as I know).
Also it is a kind of old dutch languague, which doesn't make it easy to read.
But it must be clear for everybody that Rumphius had the VOC mentality, and his work probably went much further as a VOC journal.

2) I have no idea. In his same work, where Rumphius is quoting about gold and silver tests. Again the VOC journals are many and one need to have lots of time to research them all, and find all information about suassa if there is any.

3) I will have to research Rumphius article more intensively.

Now to me also questions arise:
Do you have such old information written about gold, that this had been preferred over suassa considering its talismanic aspects?
Or is it for collectors assumably because more gold is found instead of suassa?
I came across a source, Rumphius, thanks to Loedjoe, that it was (and if this information is right or not can not be hunt down because of the big timespan I'm afraid).
You are asking me for more sources, which possibly is impossible to find without doing lots of research. But I didn't have found one of the same age which is telling gold had been preferred over suassa.