keris made by empu(forged) and keris made from moulding

Timo Nieminen · 23rd December 2015, 09:18 PM

To cast, you need more/better/hotter technology, but potentially less time. If you're going to make many, then probably less time per blade.

Depending on what alloy they cast with, could be either a brittle decoration (cast iron, i.e., 2-4% carbon), or OK from a "user" perspective.

But for authenticity, not so good. Very little pre-modern iron-casting outside China (where the blast furnace was invented, and steel production by de-carburising cast iron became standard mid-Han dynasty, and casting became standard for cheap tool (and they still make traditionally made cast iron woks, which can be most excellent woks)).

Green · 23rd December 2015, 11:29 PM

thanks all for v good explanation/discussion. Another follow-up naive question:
Can they make pamors from moulding ? or only pamorless keris can be made from cast/mould ?

Timo Nieminen · 25th December 2015, 09:19 AM

In principle, you can do pamor (or at least its approximate appearance) on a cast blade. Inlaying after casting, or casting with inserts come to mind as possible methods.

(I see fake Chinese bronze castings with patterns. Easier to do with bronze (probably brass rather than bronze) than with iron/steel.)

A. G. Maisey · 25th December 2015, 07:53 PM

Chalk & cheese

Timo Nieminen · 26th December 2015, 06:15 AM

Sure, but so is the comparison between forged keris and cast "keris" in the first place.

I don't think anybody would bother doing a serious pattern on a cast keris. I'd only expect a painted-on pamor, as one sees on some Bali sheet-metal keris (or should we say "imitation keris").

A. G. Maisey · 26th December 2015, 06:50 AM

Yep.

23rd December 2015, 09:18 PM	#1
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	To cast, you need more/better/hotter technology, but potentially less time. If you're going to make many, then probably less time per blade. Depending on what alloy they cast with, could be either a brittle decoration (cast iron, i.e., 2-4% carbon), or OK from a "user" perspective. But for authenticity, not so good. Very little pre-modern iron-casting outside China (where the blast furnace was invented, and steel production by de-carburising cast iron became standard mid-Han dynasty, and casting became standard for cheap tool (and they still make traditionally made cast iron woks, which can be most excellent woks)).

23rd December 2015, 11:29 PM	#2
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	thanks all for v good explanation/discussion. Another follow-up naive question: Can they make pamors from moulding ? or only pamorless keris can be made from cast/mould ?

25th December 2015, 09:19 AM	#3
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	In principle, you can do pamor (or at least its approximate appearance) on a cast blade. Inlaying after casting, or casting with inserts come to mind as possible methods. (I see fake Chinese bronze castings with patterns. Easier to do with bronze (probably brass rather than bronze) than with iron/steel.)

25th December 2015, 07:53 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Chalk & cheese

26th December 2015, 06:15 AM	#5
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Sure, but so is the comparison between forged keris and cast "keris" in the first place. I don't think anybody would bother doing a serious pattern on a cast keris. I'd only expect a painted-on pamor, as one sees on some Bali sheet-metal keris (or should we say "imitation keris").

26th December 2015, 06:50 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Yep.