A Keris for comment

Jean · 14th December 2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrywagner

the blade is heavier than the other three Keris I have, which I attribute to the gold.

Really? The gold coat should be very thick then!

harrywagner · 14th December 2015, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Really? The gold coat should be very thick then!

Hi Jean, Maybe. Or maybe it is just a thicker blade. Or perhaps a combination of the two. I only have four Keris, and those four are the only ones I have had an opportunity to handle. So take anything I say about Keris with a grain of salt. Here are the weights for the four I have:

This one: 1 lb 7 oz
Beanie boy hilt (previously posted): 14.5 oz
Monkey hilt (also previously posted): 13.1 oz
A new (vintage) one I have not yet posted: 10 oz

Harry

A. G. Maisey · 14th December 2015, 08:46 PM

Harry, one of the things I do when I appraise a keris is to examine it very closely using a 3X loupe under good natural light. You can see a lot that you cannot otherwise see.

I suggest you have a close look at the gold that has been applied to the surface of this blade.

There are several different ways to attach gold to the surface of a blade, it is probable that the gold on your blade is a very, very thin layer of foil that has been attached in a similar way to koftgari. Sometimes a little bit of adhesive might be used where where the foil will not stick.

The total weight of the gold will be very small.

This keris is a bit heavier than your others because it is a current era keris, and the raised areas of carved steel, needed to support the gold add to the weight.

harrywagner · 14th December 2015, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Harry, one of the things I do when I appraise a keris is to examine it very closely using a 3X loupe under good natural light. You can see a lot that you cannot otherwise see.

I suggest you have a close look at the gold that has been applied to the surface of this blade.

There are several different ways to attach gold to the surface of a blade, it is probable that the gold on your blade is a very, very thin layer of foil that has been attached in a similar way to koftgari. Sometimes a little bit of adhesive might be used where where the foil will not stick.

The total weight of the gold will be very small.

This keris is a bit heavier than your others because it is a current era keris, and the raised areas of carved steel, needed to support the gold add to the weight.

I am sure you are right. It is difficult for me to tell looking at it under magnification, but I can take some gold off with edge of a dime. I have to be a little vigorous but it does come off, so it probably is pretty thin. Here are some macro photos that might help. Many thanks for your help!

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2015, 02:10 AM

Thanks Harry, but I don't need the pics. This is one of those very rare cases where I know exactly what I am looking at.

Jean · 15th December 2015, 08:28 AM

Hello Alan,
Is it possible to apply gold paint instead of gold leaf like I did on this small (wooden) balinese hilt or would it peel-off easily?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2015, 08:40 AM

Yes, gold paint can be used, but this is the worst and cheapest of jobs.

In Jogja back in the 1960's and through into the '70's they glued the foil on.

Another way is to apply brass, carve the brass and gold plate it.

Another way is to use fire gilding.

Then we have genuine kinatah work, which has a range of qualities.

Above this, and used mainly on the gonjo, lumps of gold are set in place by use of undercut holes cut into the steel, the gold is then carved.

More than one way to skin a cat, and finished they all look pretty much the same in photos.

15th December 2015, 08:28 AM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Is it possible to apply gold paint instead of gold leaf like I did on this small (wooden) balinese hilt or would it peel-off easily? Regards Attached Images

14th December 2015, 08:46 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Harry, one of the things I do when I appraise a keris is to examine it very closely using a 3X loupe under good natural light. You can see a lot that you cannot otherwise see. I suggest you have a close look at the gold that has been applied to the surface of this blade. There are several different ways to attach gold to the surface of a blade, it is probable that the gold on your blade is a very, very thin layer of foil that has been attached in a similar way to koftgari. Sometimes a little bit of adhesive might be used where where the foil will not stick. The total weight of the gold will be very small. This keris is a bit heavier than your others because it is a current era keris, and the raised areas of carved steel, needed to support the gold add to the weight.

15th December 2015, 02:10 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Thanks Harry, but I don't need the pics. This is one of those very rare cases where I know exactly what I am looking at.

15th December 2015, 08:40 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yes, gold paint can be used, but this is the worst and cheapest of jobs. In Jogja back in the 1960's and through into the '70's they glued the foil on. Another way is to apply brass, carve the brass and gold plate it. Another way is to use fire gilding. Then we have genuine kinatah work, which has a range of qualities. Above this, and used mainly on the gonjo, lumps of gold are set in place by use of undercut holes cut into the steel, the gold is then carved. More than one way to skin a cat, and finished they all look pretty much the same in photos.