Tipu Sword

[B.I]

hi jim,
eloquent and learned, as ever yes, the imported blades were revered locally, and throughout the area. walhouse was quite surprised at the amount found at tanjore. there is mixed feeling as to the true durability and opinion of wootz at the time. we admire its beauty but can but guess at its use as a fighting steel. the importance put on wootz blades at the time can be noted, as can the historian that described its form. but, you can argue this with those that ignored its use on a battle field, both from british accounts and indian. shivajis sword was a genoan blade, and, as you rightly stated, haider ali steered towards imported steel. however, there are many 'tipu' sowrds. some with imported blades and some locally made. windsor has two swords, as do powis castle. there is one in a collection in northern england, one in a private collection in germany. one in a museum in london. all of these offer provenance of the time. they were all handed as gifts to important people by those that led the storming. as all accounts show, tipu's body was found beneath the bodies of his bodyguard, and so any sword picked up then could have been tipus. as he armed his own body guard, and we can assume those closest to him would have been armed in a similar way, there is no way of knowing which was his. looting of that citadel was a free for all, and the important pieces handed in afterwards. there are no accounts of a sword being taken from his hand, and so even the queens sword could have been owned by his closest advisor and not himself.
the bedchamber sword was important because it was well known that tipu owned a collection of swords in his personal armoury, and everyday and different sword was brought to his bedchamber. saying that, we could ask why it was still in his bedchamber and not next to his body? either way, there were enough important names attributed to this sword to give it true provenance.
the sword below is attributed to tipu (along with a katar) and was given to the duke of wellington by his brother in law, the marquis of wellesley (i think, from scrawled notes from years ago). the sword is interesting in that its decoration is of the highest quality, but it holds no motifs associated with tipu. again, the provenance added by wellesly and wellington allow them the benefit of the doubt.
btw, just a personal opinion but i doubt very much the sword in the dehli museum was tipus. i would guess the catalogue tag was right, but the sword was long replaced by another locally bought. pure specualtion of course but pant or kk sharma would not know the difference.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Brian,

I think it is a very interesting topic you have started, a subject some know about, but many don't.
The Tipu sword given to the Duke of Wellington is an interesting one, although I would have liked to see the blade and the top of the disc.
The quality seems to be very high, but I must say, that I personally find the design a bit busy. I like reliefs on hilts, but like Hendley and Watt writes the ealier hilt decorations were more ‘quiet’.

Thank you for starting the subject.

Jens

[B.I]

hi jens,
i know of your passion for pommels, but to take a picture of the pommel would require either 8 foot long arms or a step ladder. as the curator was kind enough to allow me in to see them, i thought a step ladder pushing my luck. sorry about the arms.
i know what you mean by busy but i dont find this at all. this style of decoration is of the highest quality and the fact that it is completely geometric shows the artistry to be of a top calibre. the 19thC koftgari was second rate in comparison. the decoration is of the 18thC and there is a katar in the wallace collection of the same style of work.
this is true tahinashan and very rare at this level.
as you say, hendley claims the best form of tahinishan to be of a simpler design but i cant see fault in this at all. i think mr hendley had more to compare it with
in the same paragraph, he goes on to mention a sword hilt from tonk in the V&A (then the south kensington museum). i have seen the hilt in question and and the embossed flowers were bold and i suppose of a simpler, less busy design, but i personally think the wellington hilt of a higher quality.
this same hilt (from tonk) was illustrated by h.h.cole in his photographic book of the simla exhibition of 1881 and so they both may agree with you

[B.I]

oh, i forgot. the blade is sheathed but it is straight and wide. the photo shows a slight tilt to one side, but not sure if this is the case or its an optical illusion.
i'll risk showing the kris on the cabinet, knowing we will struggle to keep this post indian if i do

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Brian,

I don’t doubt that the quality of the Tipu sword is very high, my comment on the business of the design is my personnel opinion of designs in general, and I might very well change my mind if I had had an opportunity to see the sword.
The sword display is very nice, and so is the keris. BTW of the mails I have read about kerises I don’t remember to have seen any references to kerieses being used in India – they were, so maybe the keris you show ‘fits’ into the picture. In Robert Elgoods new book there are pictures showing warriors armed with a keris and a tulwar.

Jens

[B.I]

i was teasing you jens, i know that decoration is down to opinion only, and i know that you will be suitably impressed if you saw this sword in life. who knows, maybe i'll get a chance to show it to you at some point.
i think you tread on dangerous ground, mr nordlunde. the keris in india? we stand a good chance of being flogged alive on this forum
an interesting note. herman goetz had full access to the bikaner amroury, and its accession notes (what little there was) as he wrote a book under the patronage of the maharja at the time. apparantly there is a sword owned by akbar in the armoury. it has a persian blade with an inscribed cartouche (no reference to the inscription stating its ownership) and a malaysian hilt! (cross piece is missing but hilt and blade show the witness marks of tis existence).
i dont know where the akbar attribution came from, but the malaysian hilt was no doubt adopted from a piece that was admired at the time, if not by akbar then by some important moghul/rajput.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Brian,

Hmm yes, it occurred to me that you did try to pull my leg – now, which leg was it, the wooden one or the other?
Maybe I will be flogged, but let the ones doing so prove me wrong, it is all there in clear pictures, besides for the interesting text Robert Elgood writes about the kris in the Glossary.
I have only, very briefly, been the owner of a kris with a golden hilt, but that is many years ago – maybe I should have kept it.
The knife in the Bikarner armoury with the Persian blade and Malayan hilt, could have been a gift from someone, a pity that Herman Goetz did not draw it or at least describe it more in detail.

Jens