Flintlock Pair, Need help Identifying

[Chertbolt]

Here is a close-up of the locks.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Chertbolt

Here is a close-up of the locks.

Hi Chertbolt.
Looks like the locks are invisible?? LOL. Hope you can Post close-ups of the locks.
I agree with others here. These pistols are an excellent example of European made - for export to the Ottoman market. For all the reasons mentioned above.
The stocks are copied from the French design, and the locks look very French, first to second quarter of the 19th Century. As mentioned, the lock internals are the typical higher quality found on Europen locks versus the more common Balkan made copies. And the non-serrated frizzen and full ramrods are also both give aways.
Again, a textbook example of Europen made pistols decorated for the Ottoman market. A great pair.
Rick.

[Chertbolt]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention they have the special ability to become completely transparent. ...or maybe I just forgot to re-size the pictures and they didn't attach. I fixed it.

Hi Chertbolt.
Looks like the locks are invisible?? LOL. Hope you can Post close-ups of the locks.
I agree with others here. These pistols are an excellent example of European made - for export to the Ottoman market. For all the reasons mentioned above.
The stocks are copied from the French design, and the locks look very French, first to second quarter of the 19th Century. As mentioned, the lock internals are the typical higher quality found on Europen locks versus the more common Balkan made copies. And the non-serrated frizzen and full ramrods are also both give aways.
Again, a textbook example of Europen made pistols decorated for the Ottoman market. A great pair.
Rick.

Did you perhaps mean false ramrods? Because they are definitely not functional or full in length. Unless you meant something else by full?

Thank you all again for contributing to this thread. I had suspected they were European made for the Ottoman market with the prior research I had done before landing here. It is good to hear confirming opinions.

[Pukka Bundook]

I believe these pistols are Turkish/Ottoman, with European locks finished in the near east.

The trigger-guards do not look French to me, and the engraving isn't French either.
For Turkish pistols, these are very high -end. Congratulations on finding them!
Actually, going by the lock -work, they appear English locks....

Edited to correct my English lock bit!
On looking at the lock-work again, I see detachable pans. more or less unheard of in England.

[Andreas]

Hello,
The barrels are certainly French, the crowned AM is a St Etienne proof mark, and the name JEAN BROSARS appears in several examples, ca 1810.
Andreas

[rickystl]

Did you perhaps mean false ramrods? Because they are definitely not functional or full in length. Unless you meant something else by full?

Oh, ok. They are the "short" ramrods. That is one of the two variations of the "false ramrod".
Also, note the European style trigger vs the flat curl trigger usually encountered on the Balkan made pieces.

Thanks for the pics of the locks, also decorated in Ottoman style for local tastes.

Rick

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Hello,
The barrels are certainly French, the crowned AM is a St Etienne proof mark, and the name JEAN BROSARS appears in several examples, ca 1810.
Andreas

Now that is interesting. Thank you Andreas!!
Rick.

[Chertbolt]

Hello,
The barrels are certainly French, the crowned AM is a St Etienne proof mark, and the name JEAN BROSARS appears in several examples, ca 1810.
Andreas

I agree with Rick. Very Interesting! I had searched for the proof mark but could not find it referenced anywhere. I am still learning!

Would you mind sharing where you have seen this proof mark documented?

I am also very interested in knowing more about Jean Brosars and where you have seen other examples baring his name. Any information would be of great help. My mother is an experienced genealogical researcher and is working on this name as well as the Arabic inscription of 'George Abraham' to try and find more information.

She did find a Syrian man by the name of George Abraham that lived 20 minutes away from the earliest known owner of these pistols, whom would be my uncles father. Though we have not found any solid connections to say for certain that this is the same George Abraham.

Will update as we find more information.

For now here are some more pictures.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

I believe these pistols are Turkish/Ottoman, with European locks finished in the near east.

The trigger-guards do not look French to me, and the engraving isn't French either.
For Turkish pistols, these are very high -end. Congratulations on finding them!
Actually, going by the lock -work, they appear English locks....

Edited to correct my English lock bit!
On looking at the lock-work again, I see detachable pans. more or less unheard of in England.

Hi Richard.
Yes, they could have been final assembled in the Balkans from European parts. Just the locks and barrels imported. But when I look at the European style triggers, along with everything else, I still believe these pistols were finished and assembled in Europe for export.
The engraving on the trigger guards look typical generic Ottoman/Balkan. And could have easily been done in Europe, or locally since the guards appear to be iron forgings.
And I see what you mean by the locks. They have both English and French styling cues. Hmmm.
Rick.