Flintlock Pair, Need help Identifying

Shakethetrees · 5th November 2015, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I agree for the punch marks especialy because one is 80 in Arabic numeral.
But i still think that's a French pistol for export, probably from Marseille.

The quality seems to be there for Marsailles, but silver was marked with an export stamp. As I recall, it was a goat's head.

Kubur · 5th November 2015, 02:55 PM

Ottoman Silver Marks
Kürkman, Garo
Istanbul: Mathusalem Publications, 1996
English - 293 pages
ISBN: 9789758129007
"A book by Garo Kürkman brings the tradition of silver marks and tughras, monograms of sultans
in stylized script, into light.For centuries, during the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, it was
obligatory for gold and silver wares to be assayed and stamped at the states gold mint. These
marks are catalogued in the book titled “Ottoman Silver Marks.” The book contains a complete
list of the Tugra marks of the sultans and other silver marks."

Shakethetrees · 6th November 2015, 01:31 AM

I don't have any references with Turkish marks. Rarely see any of that work here.

Chertbolt · 6th November 2015, 07:02 AM

Here is a close-up of the locks.

rickystl · 6th November 2015, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chertbolt

Here is a close-up of the locks.

Hi Chertbolt.
Looks like the locks are invisible?? LOL. Hope you can Post close-ups of the locks.
I agree with others here. These pistols are an excellent example of European made - for export to the Ottoman market. For all the reasons mentioned above.
The stocks are copied from the French design, and the locks look very French, first to second quarter of the 19th Century. As mentioned, the lock internals are the typical higher quality found on Europen locks versus the more common Balkan made copies. And the non-serrated frizzen and full ramrods are also both give aways.
Again, a textbook example of Europen made pistols decorated for the Ottoman market. A great pair.
Rick.

Chertbolt · 7th November 2015, 12:56 AM

Oh yes, I forgot to mention they have the special ability to become completely transparent.

...or maybe I just forgot to re-size the pictures and they didn't attach. I fixed it.

Quote:

Hi Chertbolt.
Looks like the locks are invisible?? LOL. Hope you can Post close-ups of the locks.
I agree with others here. These pistols are an excellent example of European made - for export to the Ottoman market. For all the reasons mentioned above.
The stocks are copied from the French design, and the locks look very French, first to second quarter of the 19th Century. As mentioned, the lock internals are the typical higher quality found on Europen locks versus the more common Balkan made copies. And the non-serrated frizzen and full ramrods are also both give aways.
Again, a textbook example of Europen made pistols decorated for the Ottoman market. A great pair.
Rick.

Did you perhaps mean false ramrods? Because they are definitely not functional or full in length. Unless you meant something else by full?

Thank you all again for contributing to this thread. I had suspected they were European made for the Ottoman market with the prior research I had done before landing here. It is good to hear confirming opinions.

Pukka Bundook · 7th November 2015, 03:49 AM

I believe these pistols are Turkish/Ottoman, with European locks finished in the near east.

The trigger-guards do not look French to me, and the engraving isn't French either.
For Turkish pistols, these are very high -end. Congratulations on finding them!
Actually, going by the lock -work, they appear English locks....

Edited to correct my English lock bit!
On looking at the lock-work again, I see detachable pans. more or less unheard of in England.

6th November 2015, 07:02 AM	#4
Chertbolt Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6	Here is a close-up of the locks. Attached Images Last edited by Chertbolt; 7th November 2015 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Forgot to re-size photos.

5th November 2015, 02:55 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Ottoman Silver Marks Kürkman, Garo Istanbul: Mathusalem Publications, 1996 English - 293 pages ISBN: 9789758129007 "A book by Garo Kürkman brings the tradition of silver marks and tughras, monograms of sultans in stylized script, into light.For centuries, during the expansion of the Ottoman Empire, it was obligatory for gold and silver wares to be assayed and stamped at the states gold mint. These marks are catalogued in the book titled “Ottoman Silver Marks.” The book contains a complete list of the Tugra marks of the sultans and other silver marks."

6th November 2015, 01:31 AM	#3
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	I don't have any references with Turkish marks. Rarely see any of that work here.

7th November 2015, 03:49 AM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I believe these pistols are Turkish/Ottoman, with European locks finished in the near east. The trigger-guards do not look French to me, and the engraving isn't French either. For Turkish pistols, these are very high -end. Congratulations on finding them! Actually, going by the lock -work, they appear English locks.... Edited to correct my English lock bit! On looking at the lock-work again, I see detachable pans. more or less unheard of in England.