Kris question to the knowledgeables

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

No I am not ignoring you. I Read the first one and will read the second one later when I get the time. In the first article there is no real evidence to prove that wavy blades were not around at the same time. Straight keris blades have always been more common then wavy blades. It dose not surprise me that the accounts are only of straight blades, and not many accounts as you can see.
As I said such wavy blades did exist in Vedic India so when India warriors arrived in Indonesia they would have had such weapons, may not be common but dose not mean there were none. Indonesians have two blades, one for common every day use and pusaka. I dont see why it could not have been the same back then.
Yes I know that there are hypothesis but the truth is this information is lost so you either forget about the whole thing and dont try to even understand the symbolism or you do your best to work it out. Someone mentioned that I am mixing in my Western way of thinking; actually I have studied eastern philosophy for some time now and know that everything I have said fits with an Eastern way of thinking. As many have said the keris is many things to many people and they dont all agree.

Personally I think that the problem will be solved with a trip to the Museum archives. To find the common Indian ancestor of these blades. I will do so when I get the time.

Pusaka,

I think you are missing the point here. I'm not a student of keris (or kris), and consequently have no "dog in this fight". Perhaps I can offer some objective advice.

It does not appear to me that anyone is dismissing your thoughts out of hand. On the contrary, you are bringing some interesting and thought-provoking ideas to the table.

The problem I percieve arises from your desire for definitive answers. Quite simply, those are not available right now.

Disagreements are inevitable when discussing these weapons and that's fine: I feel it stimulates and enriches a discussion. You may find your position is better recieved if you avoid couching it in absolute statements of fact.

Best,
Andrew

[BSMStar]

One of the greatest of human experiences is the search for truth and knowledge. Wisdom comes from in-depth knowledge, experience, and the ability to discern. The keris is shrouded in a thousand years of unrecorded change. From the first proto-keris that was traded, copied, modified, influenced by Hinduism, Islam, different kingdoms, regions and peoples… to the keris being made today, the only true constant for the keris… is change. The keris of today is richly immersed in culture and tradition that changes from location to location, shrouded in mysterious meaning and perhaps enhanced with mystical powers.

I am of the belief that in order to understand the keris and the origins of the keris, the secret is embedded with the people of the keris. To seek out examples of different keris from different times will still leave a mystery, a void… oh look, a new shape… why was that done, what does this mean? To know the people of the time, to know what they know… then will understanding be found. After all, isn’t that the purpose of this forum, to seek and share understanding?

I think this has been one of the most insightful threads, a small glimpse into the meaning of the ricikans. Thank you Antonio for starting this tread! And thank you Boedhi Adhitya for reminding us of the wisdom of our elders and to have the ears to listen.

[MABAGANI]

btw Great additional historical info and photos of bas-reliefs in Dominique Buttin's site "Malay World Edged Weapons" http://old.blades.free.fr/