Kris question to the knowledgeables

Pusaka · 3rd January 2006, 07:07 PM

Edited your photo to explain the idea

Battara · 3rd January 2006, 08:17 PM

Now that I understand the question better (I think

) there are certainly talismanic properties to the animal heads, like the elephant that I have seen on many Tausug kris at the base, or like the one you posted which I would say is Maranao looking and more of an eagle. I also agree that there may be a Vedic/Indic origin for the elephant whose meaning goes might be traced back to the Majapahit era (and Indian trade). The eagle may also be similar, like symbolizing originally Garuda, although now perhaps more for the sea eagle in the Philippines. My speculations at present.

MABAGANI · 3rd January 2006, 08:26 PM

Thanks keris "knowledgeables" for your insights, I asked on a previous thread for keris experts opinions on the relationships of the different Malay Sultanate keris.
The kris forms vary from elephant, snake, serpent, naga, dragon, crocodile, sarimanok, eagle, parrot and other birds, etc. all motifs specific or mythological.
Pusaka pointed out many of the early Indian/Hindu connections, which raises the question did the keris arrive in Mindanao and Sulu earlier than the Malay Muslim missionaries. A study of the language, beliefs and history show the Hindu culture in the Philippines centuries before Islam so why not the keris? Maybe some answers are in the study of the earlier culture and some more prior interrelated with the coming of Islam.
An example of the early Hindu connection show on the Maranao kris which resemble an elephant on one side vs. the serpent/bird and serpent, the Maranao were the last to convert to Islam and still held to many early beliefs.
I've seen the Sulu kris vary from naga to bird possibly also indicating they may have been made in different periods.

3rd January 2006, 07:07 PM	#1
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Edited your photo to explain the idea Attached Images Last edited by Pusaka; 3rd January 2006 at 11:04 PM.

3rd January 2006, 08:17 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,282	Now that I understand the question better (I think ) there are certainly talismanic properties to the animal heads, like the elephant that I have seen on many Tausug kris at the base, or like the one you posted which I would say is Maranao looking and more of an eagle. I also agree that there may be a Vedic/Indic origin for the elephant whose meaning goes might be traced back to the Majapahit era (and Indian trade). The eagle may also be similar, like symbolizing originally Garuda, although now perhaps more for the sea eagle in the Philippines. My speculations at present.

3rd January 2006, 08:26 PM	#3
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Thanks keris "knowledgeables" for your insights, I asked on a previous thread for keris experts opinions on the relationships of the different Malay Sultanate keris. The kris forms vary from elephant, snake, serpent, naga, dragon, crocodile, sarimanok, eagle, parrot and other birds, etc. all motifs specific or mythological. Pusaka pointed out many of the early Indian/Hindu connections, which raises the question did the keris arrive in Mindanao and Sulu earlier than the Malay Muslim missionaries. A study of the language, beliefs and history show the Hindu culture in the Philippines centuries before Islam so why not the keris? Maybe some answers are in the study of the earlier culture and some more prior interrelated with the coming of Islam. An example of the early Hindu connection show on the Maranao kris which resemble an elephant on one side vs. the serpent/bird and serpent, the Maranao were the last to convert to Islam and still held to many early beliefs. I've seen the Sulu kris vary from naga to bird possibly also indicating they may have been made in different periods.