Possable Philippine First Republic Dagger

Robert · 8th August 2015, 04:29 AM

Hello Ian, The fact that some of the hilt material seems of a later date had also occurred to me. Also the quality and workmanship of the blade appear to be of a much higher quality than that of the hilt itself. On quite a few of these that I have seen the fittings were made of silver. Maybe this was a later replacement? As leather scabbards most likely have very short lives in the Philippines I would say that this could also very easily be a later replacement as well.

Sajen · 8th August 2015, 11:51 AM

Hello Robert,

a most interesting and unusual dagger. Like pointed out by Ian and yourself could the scabbard be a later replacement but don't think that the handle with the brass fittings are not original to this piece, I have seen a few with brass fittings before. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...epublic+dagger
But agree that the horn guard is very unusual. I am already curious to see the restored dagger. And I am green with envy!

Great catch.

Regards,
Detlef

Robert · 8th August 2015, 08:28 PM

Thank you Detlef, I am planning on restoring this with the hilt pieces it has now. If later it is determined that this hilt is not original to the blade I can always remove it easily as the brass bead (now missing) is threaded on instead of being peened in place and will make it very easy to remove the entire hilt if needed. I plan on using a brass casing made from either a 45 long colt or 38 cartridge depending on which one has the correct diameter to match up with the horn grip at that end for the missing front ferrule with the rim resting against the guard. As this guard has had the center where the tang passes through eaten away by bugs so badly it now spins I will have to make a replacement for it also. I am hoping that there will be enough members give their opinions on what material should be used for the guard to keep me from having to make it twice

Best,
Robert

Ian · 8th August 2015, 09:31 PM

Either horn or brass for the guard.

Sajen · 9th August 2015, 11:03 AM

I would go for horn since it originally was horn.

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 9th August 2015, 10:13 PM

Horn is possible, although usually you see brass used for guards of these types of daggers.

I agree that the sheath is newly and later made. MOP was popular later and that makes me think that the rest of the hilt was later as well.

Robert · 10th August 2015, 05:50 AM

Code:

 MOP was popular later and that makes me think 
that the rest of the hilt was later as well.

These are my thoughts as well. While the blade itself is very well made the style of the present hilt pieces as well as the way they fit the tang just does not remind me of the workmanship that I am used to seeing on these older pieces.

8th August 2015, 11:51 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	Hello Robert, a most interesting and unusual dagger. Like pointed out by Ian and yourself could the scabbard be a later replacement but don't think that the handle with the brass fittings are not original to this piece, I have seen a few with brass fittings before. See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...epublic+dagger But agree that the horn guard is very unusual. I am already curious to see the restored dagger. And I am green with envy! Great catch. Regards, Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 8th August 2015 at 09:09 PM.

10th August 2015, 05:50 AM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Code: MOP was popular later and that makes me think that the rest of the hilt was later as well. These are my thoughts as well. While the blade itself is very well made the style of the present hilt pieces as well as the way they fit the tang just does not remind me of the workmanship that I am used to seeing on these older pieces.

8th August 2015, 04:29 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Ian, The fact that some of the hilt material seems of a later date had also occurred to me. Also the quality and workmanship of the blade appear to be of a much higher quality than that of the hilt itself. On quite a few of these that I have seen the fittings were made of silver. Maybe this was a later replacement? As leather scabbards most likely have very short lives in the Philippines I would say that this could also very easily be a later replacement as well.

8th August 2015, 08:28 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you Detlef, I am planning on restoring this with the hilt pieces it has now. If later it is determined that this hilt is not original to the blade I can always remove it easily as the brass bead (now missing) is threaded on instead of being peened in place and will make it very easy to remove the entire hilt if needed. I plan on using a brass casing made from either a 45 long colt or 38 cartridge depending on which one has the correct diameter to match up with the horn grip at that end for the missing front ferrule with the rim resting against the guard. As this guard has had the center where the tang passes through eaten away by bugs so badly it now spins I will have to make a replacement for it also. I am hoping that there will be enough members give their opinions on what material should be used for the guard to keep me from having to make it twice Best, Robert

8th August 2015, 09:31 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Either horn or brass for the guard.

9th August 2015, 11:03 AM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	I would go for horn since it originally was horn. Regards, Detlef

9th August 2015, 10:13 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Horn is possible, although usually you see brass used for guards of these types of daggers. I agree that the sheath is newly and later made. MOP was popular later and that makes me think that the rest of the hilt was later as well.