Keris pamor

[maxbliss888]

Closer view
Looks like the Benda Sagada Winengku

[Green]

thanks Max...very beautiful...

Rick;

The reason I ask our more experienced members/collectors to post their keris here is so that it can inform me what is the quality I should aim for when I plan to do my purchase... as it is I'm clueless as to what is the yardstick or standard I should aim for...

sorry if i sound too green for this forum.

[A. G. Maisey]

Green, nobody is too green for this forum:- all of us are only students, none of us are yet masters --- in fact, where the keris is concerned I feel that at the present time it might be just a little bit difficult to find anybody, anywhere who could claim to be a master.

I understand your motivation in asking to see examples, but it may be that actual examples of pamors could confuse you, possibly a more useful approach could be to look at line drawings, such as can be found in Tammens, and then look for pamor execution that comes close to the drawing of the motif.

[Jean]

Hello Green,
I understand your request and will try to help you but first you should realize that all these nice pamors are basically Javanese or Indonesian and it may be extremely difficult for you to find old blades with such pamor.
I attach the pics of 5 blades with a style of pamor included in your list, will you be able to identify them? I can provide more detailed pics if required.
Regards

[maxbliss888]

Hi ! The Keris from Southern Thailand tends to have less design.. And have simple grey colour and blades are often straight as well...

[Henk]

The keris from the Malay area tend to be often pamorless.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Green

The reason I ask our more experienced members/collectors to post their keris here is so that it can inform me what is the quality I should aim for when I plan to do my purchase... as it is I'm clueless as to what is the yardstick or standard I should aim for...

Well, maybe we should discuss instead what constitutes a well executed pamor .

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Rick

Well, maybe we should discuss instead what constitutes a well executed pamor .

A good picture is worth one thousand words We already discussed the well executed pamor subject many times I think.
Regards

[Henk]

Originally Posted by Green

The reason I ask our more experienced members/collectors to post their keris here is so that it can inform me what is the quality I should aim for when I plan to do my purchase... as it is I'm clueless as to what is the yardstick or standard I should aim for...

Don't make it too hard for yourself. Use your common sense when you look at a piece. I think the most important things are: Do you like it? What is it and does it meet your expectations? And most important, can i afford it?

If the answer is tripple yes, it is what you are aiming at.

[Green]

Originally Posted by Henk

Don't make it too hard for yourself. Use your common sense when you look at a piece. I think the most important things are: Do you like it? What is it and does it meet your expectations? And most important, can i afford it?

If the answer is tripple yes, it is what you are aiming at.

Henk;

Here's the problem. facebook is full of young Indonesians trying to sell new keris for dirt cheap price (very often around usd150 or less) and based on the pics some have quite good looking pamors.

The issue is; are these really good keris with good pamors ? (albeit new ones/not antiques)...how do we judge them (from the pics) ? I guess by looking at examples of good old keris genuine antique keris pamors...? hence my original question posed here.

Here are two examples of new keris offered by fb friends... what do you think of these pamors ?

[Henk]

Very nice pamors on both blades. Both keris are brand new. My problem with these two blades is the rust. Maybe it is slight surface rust that can be whiped away with a cloth and oil. After treating a blade with warangan it should be oiled preventing from rust. I don't know how the dress of the second blade looks like but i wouldn't be punished with those two kerisses.

You'd better do some reading on this forum. There are some threads that are discussing your question i suppose.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=tourist
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=tourist

[A. G. Maisey]

I wouldn't say "brand new" Henk, this type of Madura work has been around since at least the 1985. There was similar stuff done in Madura, and maybe East Jawa, in the early 20th century through to WWII, but not a lot of it, so its unlikely to be from that earlier period.

The little bit of rust on these blades is negligible, and not a cause for even the slightest concern, it can be cleaned off with patience, penetrating oil, a hard toothbrush, and a few strands of 00 steel wool wound around the end of a wooden sate skewer.

Quality of these two blades? Pretty ordinary. Certainly not bad, but also certainly not exceptional. FAQ.

Rather than focus on how good, bad, or indifferent the pamor is, I would suggest that garap should be given precedence in blade appraisal, with well executed pamor, if present, being a nice little extra.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Rather than focus on how good, bad, or indifferent the pamor is, I would suggest that garap should be given precedence in blade appraisal, with well executed pamor, if present, being a nice little extra.

Hello Alan,
This thread failed to raise much interest and the forum is very quiet these days may be due to the Holiday season.
Many kris collectors focus in priority on the visual pamor style and quality to the detriment of the garap of the blade which is less a spectacular or more subjective feature for some of us. And many antique blades have a poor garap (and pamor) due to the wear but remain attractive pieces.
Would you please try to define what constitutes a good garap versus a bad one and show us some examples? I could contribute with some blade specimens if required.
Regards
PS: In the second paragraph I would rather have said "poor pawakan" than "poor garap", sorry.